Torrence Posts his Lactate Threshold & VO2Max Test Results: Letsrun Experts what do you make of it?

Complete waste of time. Threshold pace at 5:20??? Ridiculous. 4:40 is more like it.

They clearly botched the test. That's why it says "(leak?)" next to the VO2 max value - it's probably too low. It's possible he has exceptional running economy, but it's a lot more likely that the setup was not calibrated right or there was a leak in the gas lines.

Also it's ridiculous to think his LT is 5:20 mile pace. That's LT pace for a 15:20 5k guy. His 8xmile workout would be literally impossible if his threshold was actually 5:20 pace. Looking at the test I don't know where they got that info...typical marker is 4.0 mM/L of lactate. Maybe they just picked the inflection point.

I don't know why he'd even bother with a VO2 test, if not for just curiosity. If he can't sense his own threshold by now he's got bigger issues.

Agreed the test was botched. Whoever did the testing should have whatever licenses or credentials removed.

Unless he showed up high, drunk and hasn't slept in 5 days.

Somehow half of running lab oxygen/lactate tests in you hear about were either "botched" or from "clearly" miscalibrated equipment. If the numbers don't line up with our previously conceived tables, the test was obviously botched. If the results look "wrong" then surely the equipment or lab tester screwed up, or maybe he's yet another anomaly to be ignored. Gotta love exercise "science."

No big surprise, he's in the bottom-center of Malmo's list

92.5 Greg LeMond, professional cyclist

92.0 Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder

88.0 Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist

87.4 Marius Bakken, Norwegian 5k record holder

85 Dave Bedford, 10k world record

84.4 Steve Prefontaine,US runner

84.3 "Physiologist in training," 15:12/30:55 runner

82.7 Gary Tuttle, US runner

82.0 Kip Keino, Olympic 1500 champion

81.1 Craig Virgin, twice World cross country champ

81.0 Jim Ryun, US miler WR holder

80.1 Steve Scott, US miler 3:47

79.4 "Runningart2004," 15:43 5k runner

78.5 Bill Rodgers, 2:09:27 marathoner

77.4 Don Kardong, 2:11:15 marathoner

76.6 John Landy, WR miler

76.0 Alberto Salazar, 2:08:51 marathoner

74.3 Amby Burfoot, US marathoner

74.4 Johnny Halberstadt, 2:11:44 marathoner

74.2 Kenny Moore, US marathoner 2:11:36

73.5 Grete Waitz, Norwegian Marathon runner

73.0 Jeff Galloway, US snake oil salesman

73.0 Buddy Edelen, marathoner

73.0 David Torrence, US 1000m indoor record holder, 3:33 1500m runner

72.8 Jarmila Krotochvilova,Czech Olympian 400M/800M winner

72.3 Peter Snell, Olympic champion

72.0 Zithulele Sinqe, 2:08:05 marathoner

71.3 Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner

71.2 Ingrid Kristiansen, ex-Marathon World Record Holder

71.0 Paula Ivan, Russian Olympic 1500M Record Holder

70.3 Willie Mtolo, 2:08:15 marathoner

69.7 Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder 2:08:35

67.2 Rosa Mota, Marathon runner

62.0 Cam Levins, Canadian badass

doo doo wrote:

Agreed the test was botched. Whoever did the testing should have whatever licenses or credentials removed. .

Whats your evidence? It doesn't seem 'botched' to me..

Fizziologist wrote:

62.0 Cam Levins, Canadian badass

ROFL

The goal of testing is to use the raw data obtained in developing training plans. In so doing will help enhance running economy and ultimately improve performance level. This test results looks sub maximal for someone of Torrence magnitude, but can be used to develop a sound training plans to developing all energy systems needed to winning a medal at the global championships. A retest will be needed to test for the adaptations in training to ascertain the improvement of the VOmax and correlation of this metric with improved performance for Torrence or any athlete performing this particular test.

"Agreed the test was botched. Whoever did the testing should have whatever licenses or credentials removed."

- this poster is the type of person that needs a serious beat down.

You will get very minimal improvement in an elite runners VO2max. RE and LT are more relevant areas to gain improvements as well as the most specific marker, 1500/mile PR

Taking a test doesn't make you stupid. The scary thing is when you start to adapt your training because of the test results. If David start to run his tempos at 5:20 (assuming the rest of his training remains the same) he'll most likely end up as yet another has-been on lrc.

What is "RE" and why is a 1500/mile PR the "most specific marker"? Not calling you out, I genuinely would like to know.

thelogistician wrote:

What is "RE" and why is a 1500/mile PR the "most specific marker"? Not calling you out, I genuinely would like to know.

Running economy = VO2 divided by speed... By my calculations he was consistently around 190 mL/kg/km

malmo wrote:

doo doo wrote:

Agreed the test was botched. Whoever did the testing should have whatever licenses or credentials removed. .

Whats your evidence? It doesn't seem 'botched' to me..

I should be clear, the vo2 test could have been right, but the LT test was not right.

As someone mentioned earlier, his 8xmile with a minute rest workout would be impossible if his 1-hour pace were 5:20s.

Not only did he do it, but it was a very relaxed early season workout.

So to reiterate: the vo2 test could have been fine, the LT test was obviously done wrong.

Average guy is low-mid 40s. Cam is at least 63.

Bjørn Erlend Dæhlie is a freak XC skiier who tested out of competition at 96, his coach estimates him to be 100 at his peak.

Lance tested 90 at peak. At end of cancer treatments after months of bedridden no training, he was at low 60s, about 40% above avg, and equiv to 34min 10k, sub 2:40 marathon.

Still, well trained runners with the same VO2 max can have 10k times 2-4 mins apart, VO2 max has to be high to be a good runner, but it's overrated when comparing to other runners. When comparing your own values over time, it's a useful tool, but the watch is better.

Cam LOL.

His LT results could be right. He may just be really good at tolerating and buffering when lactate accumulates. I've been part of research where we had people run at 10% of lactate threshold. Some people only last a few minutes. But the ultra-marathoner we had lasted an hour and an iron man triathlete was able to run longer than expected as well. VO2max isn't as important when comparing elite runners and some may have higher values because they are not efficient runners. RE and LT are better indicators between elite runners but with that said, race results matter the most.

malmo wrote:

doo doo wrote:

Agreed the test was botched. Whoever did the testing should have whatever licenses or credentials removed. .

Whats your evidence? It doesn't seem 'botched' to me..

I have no opinion on the VO2max, but the treshold? That just doesnt seem right compared to his 1500m time and workout times.

Cam wrote:

Average guy is low-mid 40s. Cam is at least 63.

Bjørn Erlend Dæhlie is a freak XC skiier who tested out of competition at 96, his coach estimates him to be 100 at his peak.

Since this forum doesnt support scandinavian letters:

*Bjoern Daehli

You'd be surprised at how difficult it is to get a machine calibrated properly. Granted, the experience I have had was at a university high performance lab, but it is very easy to be "off" on certain aspects of the test and not realize it. He likely had an inexperienced technician because my threshold pace is faster than 5:20 and I have yet to run my 13:16 5k