BYU Women's Team

great question. would be great to have an answer.

If you are suggesting they were using back in 2000 timeframe, I highly doubt it. Imagine if the Mormons were doping, talk about bad PR.

Shane has been there for like 20 years, is he just tired? Maybe. Does he care who will being lining up in 5 years? Probably not. Although I'm just guessing and don't know the man nor the program.

It really is an interesting question, why isn't Eyestone just coaching both?

Shane may have even coached Eyestone?

My thoughts:

BYU recruited some incredibly talented runners during their glory years. But they lack the funding and are drawing from a smaller pool (ie Mormons) than other schools. Add in that Provo isn't a great place to train and you have a difficult situation in which to form a true dynasty.

zion zoobie wrote:

Actually, mormons have the highest prescription drug abuse rate of any demographic. It would be very unusual for mormons at byu to not be doping. They obviously have no regard for the rules as proven by their rampant age cheating.

Whoa there you go making things up again! Utah has a high rate of prescription drug abuse, but you're drawing a false conclusion that it's Mormons who are using. Utah is only 60% Mormon the other 40% are just depressed they aren't Mormon too. Tends to jack the state's rate up.

Just a shot in the dark.

Recruiting has changed. More state schools are taking cross country seriously and more mountain west schools have competitive programs.

I expect the difference is competition for west coast talent. Also, just in general private school tuition is becoming a tougher sell, when competing with a state school.

byu alum wrote:

My thoughts:

BYU recruited some incredibly talented runners during their glory years. But they lack the funding and are drawing from a smaller pool (ie Mormons) than other schools. Add in that Provo isn't a great place to train and you have a difficult situation in which to form a true dynasty.

Maybe, but that just doesn't add up. They weren't good for 1 or 2 years- They had a dynasty going and then, almost overnight, they went from always on podium to not even making it to the big show. I'm with the OP, Something went sideways.

It's not like Provo was a good place to train, then a bad. Or there were a lot of Mormon recruits, then none.

Kind of like the CU mens or either Michigan women's teams. Imagine if they quit making the Finals in two years and just stayed bad for a long time.

Its an easy answer. Craig Poole was the head coach and left to go to the US Olympic Training Center as lead coach. While Craig was not distance based, his philosophy of total team track led the Cougs to great things. He was a master coach and administrator. When Craig left it showed the lack of organization of the people. there were also some serious questions about the ethics of some of the coaches left over. While BYU claims to be holier than though that is not really true.

Collegiate coach - DI wrote:

While BYU claims to be holier than though .

When has BYU ever claimed that?

fewer women to draw from, with the advent of the internet and information at their fingertips, kids are seeing how bs mormonism is. They don't want to go to BYU.

Stupid comment. It's harder to get into BYU today then it's ever been.

BYU just doesn't have a competent system in place to make NCAA's consistently despite getting mormons from around America automatically. It's a shame, really. Maybe Patrick Shane's son, Chris will run the program better? I could easily see him getting the job in a few years. He would be an upgrade for the team.

Several posts here have good calls. I been coaching in Utah HS level for years.

Thought I heard few years back Shane was dealing with an illness? I was a little shocked this year as at least 4 state champs, all LDS, elected to go to other schools. I was sure all 4 would be going to BYU. I called coach Eyestone about two months ago to see if I could get his opinion on some training and my runner. He just invited me straight up to his office and sat down with me for an hour. He is a wonderful person. Very caring and very protective of the health and welfare of youth. Doesn't get any better. I wonder a bit if the kids are turning a bit on going on missions and such. Id want any runner I have ever worked with to go to Eyestone. You guys ever get a chance, try to meet Eyestone.

jewbacca wrote:

zion zoobie wrote:

Actually, mormons have the highest prescription drug abuse rate of any demographic. It would be very unusual for mormons at byu to not be doping. They obviously have no regard for the rules as proven by their rampant age cheating.

Whoa there you go making things up again! Utah has a high rate of prescription drug abuse, but you're drawing a false conclusion that it's Mormons who are using. Utah is only 60% Mormon the other 40% are just depressed they aren't Mormon too. Tends to jack the state's rate up.

Lol on those last two lines. -10/10. If you look at the areas in Utah where prescription drugs are abused more, you can easily draw the opposite conclusion. However, I highly doubt that BYU's team is doping. I know quite a few of their ex-runners and they tend to just be really hard workers. However, they're "just" 2:20s marathon guys, which is fast, but hardly suspicious of doping.

Collegiate coach - DI wrote:

Its an easy answer. Craig Poole was the head coach and left to go to the US Olympic Training Center as lead coach. While Craig was not distance based, his philosophy of total team track led the Cougs to great things. He was a master coach and administrator.

I just looked Poole up and he left in 2010. BYU Women dropped to irrelevant in 2004 timeframe, so I'm not buying that.

Something is just really weird about their dominance and then swift disappearance that is questionable, even a bit sad. No coaching change, but something dramatic happened or quit happening in the 03-04 timeframe. Did they lose scholarships? Quit recruiting foreign talent? Their mission rules change? Quit recruiting non Mormons? Every other top 30 team in the country started juicing?

I have not heard a reasonable explanation yet (except perhaps the recruiting becoming more competitive) and there's obviously a lot of people on here that know the program.

Absent any other explanation, I have to believe that Shane let the success get to his head and quit caring, or they were cheating before it was cheating. I can't make sense of that history. They were as dominate then as the CU men's team is now.

Curious:

You obviously aren't able to read or research since if you could you could have easily looked up that what you said is 100% inaccurate.

Coach Poole left in 2010. YOu said they were irrelevant after 2004. Here are their NCAA Track Finishes from 2004 - 2010

Indoor

19th

6th

DNS

46th

3rd

14th

Outdoor

15th

10th

64th

21st

46th

15th

36th

Once a podium team and several other top 10 finishes. Won MWC almost every year.

Since Coach Poole left:

Indoor

2014 NcAA finish - Did not score

2013 NcAA Finish - Did not score

2012 NcAA Finish - 12th (with all Coach Pooles recruits)

2011 NCAA Finish 15th (with all Coach Pooles recruits)

Outdoor

Couldn't find that they have even scored.

Anyone who know anything about track & field (which you certainly do not) would understand Coach Poole was an incredible coach and leader of the team. When he left all the distance heads took over and have ruined a proud program.

Collegiate Coach wrote:

Curious:

You obviously aren't able to read or research since if you could you could have easily looked up that what you said is 100% inaccurate.

Coach Poole left in 2010. YOu said they were irrelevant after 2004. . .

Anyone who know anything about track & field (which you certainly do not)

Calm down there Fido. Most people on this board have no idea who Poole is. This is a conversation specifically about the BYU women's XC team (see thread title). You say this Poole coach leaving has something to do with them and their downturn in 2004 on. I just pointed out that the downturn happened when Poole was there.

Don't hijack the thread because of some personal vendetta you have, and want to be the BYU track coach-- let's focus on BYU women's XC and what went wrong. Why the sudden downturn? Idk BYU politics, never been there, just asking to give a friend my thoughts on his daughter going there.

And if your rant is attempting to smear Eyestone, you will get no sympathy here. The guy has been rated top ten coach on this board for many years and is well liked. Besides his team podiumed in 2013.

Curious George iV wrote:

No coaching change, but something dramatic happened or quit happening in the 03-04 timeframe.

I really think you are overlooking the obvious. They had a great crop of women from about 2000-2004 who graduated. I attended BYU in 2004 and Kassi Anderson was about the last of them. She broke her hip that year in a biking accident after being injured (running-related) for some time.

Flashes of brilliance can happen in a program if they get the right people. BYU had them, then graduated them and have never been able to duplicate them.

Here's the thing. You can't even have f'ing coffee at BYU. Caffeine is against the religion. Want starbucks? Too Bad. If you drink coffee in private, someone will rat you out too. Double this for alcohol. Want to do something on Sunday, like one of the two days that you aren't in class? Too bad, your day has to be entirely devoted to a sky fairy. Girls go to BYU to get husbands, not degrees. I'm sure there's more. Any top runner would be smarter than to go to that backwards environment.

You tell this guy to look at the thread title and keep the conversation on topic but the thread title says NOTHING about this being a cross country only discussion. It says merely "BYU Women's Team." You came at the guy like a prick but you look like an idiot.