Usally I end some easy runs with a few (4-6) 10 - 15 sec strides w a minute or so between each.
During the winter, instead of getting cold during the post run strides I rather bake them into my run. Throwing in a 10 sec surge, followed by some 30 sec slower than easy pace to return to my easy pace HR, then continuing my easy pace before doing another one some minutes later.
Any thoughts on intra vs post run strides?
I'm assuming that I'm acheiving a similar stimuli;
activating some FT-fibers w/o going anaerobic with similar benefits to running economy.
Intra vs post run strides
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I used to do strides post run, until I realized I was covering nearly a mile, sometimes even more (doing a lot of strides) doing a dozen or so strides and jogging back. Now I do the same, but count them as mileage. I ocassionally do them during the last planned mile or two if I'm crunched for time. Its probably better to do them during your run. When are you ever going to have to run 60-100 meters at mile pace stop or jog and repeat it.
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If you are doing strides to improve your top speed, then doing them during a run is wrong. You need full recovery.
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speed man wrote:
If you are doing strides to improve your top speed, then doing them during a run is wrong. You need full recovery.
Can anyone else comment on this? This is something I have been doing, and if I shouldn't be, I'd like to know that now, rather than waste my time doing it incorrectly. -
Also, not to hijack this thread, but what is the general consensus on strides after a long run?
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strides are NOT about top speed. it doesn't matter if they are after or during the run.
strides after a LR: I don't recommend. even though they require virtually zero recovery, your body is already beaten up from the LR. -
justsomeoldcoach wrote:
strides are NOT about top speed. it doesn't matter if they are after or during the run.
strides after a LR: I don't recommend. even though they require virtually zero recovery, your body is already beaten up from the LR.
Thanks for the quick reply! I'll continue doing them mid-run, and will leave them out of my long run days. -
I feel quite the opposite regarding post-long run strides. I feel like they help to kick off the recovery process better.
My naive intuition here is that there are two things going on.
First, during the long run you've spent quite a while going repeatedly through a limited range of motion, and the strides help to open that back up again.
Second (and probably more importantly) the long run beats the muscles up quite a bit, but doesn't seem to strongly trigger the hormonal responses to put the body in an anabolic mode so as to fix that muscular damage promptly. If some some reasonably vigorous strides are thrown in at the end with incomplete recovery, maybe the mild increase in blood lactate levels help that hormonal response. Maybe you could get a similar benefit from just hammering the last kilo of your long run, but strides seem like a much easier solution.
I was first introduced to this practice by a 1500m world champion who swore that post-long run strides would (the next day) make it feel like he'd run 3 or 4 miles fewer from a recovery standpoint. I don't know if my physiological guesses are close to the mark, but I do know that they make me feel better the next day too. -
Had Some Myself wrote:
I feel quite the opposite regarding post-long run strides. I feel like they help to kick off the recovery process better.
My naive intuition here is that there are two things going on.
First, during the long run you've spent quite a while going repeatedly through a limited range of motion, and the strides help to open that back up again.
Second (and probably more importantly) the long run beats the muscles up quite a bit, but doesn't seem to strongly trigger the hormonal responses to put the body in an anabolic mode so as to fix that muscular damage promptly. If some some reasonably vigorous strides are thrown in at the end with incomplete recovery, maybe the mild increase in blood lactate levels help that hormonal response. Maybe you could get a similar benefit from just hammering the last kilo of your long run, but strides seem like a much easier solution.
I was first introduced to this practice by a 1500m world champion who swore that post-long run strides would (the next day) make it feel like he'd run 3 or 4 miles fewer from a recovery standpoint. I don't know if my physiological guesses are close to the mark, but I do know that they make me feel better the next day too.
I would guess you feel good the next day because of muscle tension, not enhanced recovery. -
Concerned Runner wrote:
speed man wrote:
If you are doing strides to improve your top speed, then doing them during a run is wrong. You need full recovery.
Can anyone else comment on this? This is something I have been doing, and if I shouldn't be, I'd like to know that now, rather than waste my time doing it incorrectly.
Why do you need anyone else to comment? Look at what sprinters do. They sprint 100% then rest for 5-20 minutes.
You first need to state why you are even doing strides. What are you trying to accomplish? Top speed, speed endurance, getting used to running fast? -
speed man wrote:
Concerned Runner wrote:
speed man wrote:
If you are doing strides to improve your top speed, then doing them during a run is wrong. You need full recovery.
Can anyone else comment on this? This is something I have been doing, and if I shouldn't be, I'd like to know that now, rather than waste my time doing it incorrectly.
Why do you need anyone else to comment? Look at what sprinters do. They sprint 100% then rest for 5-20 minutes.
You first need to state why you are even doing strides. What are you trying to accomplish? Top speed, speed endurance, getting used to running fast?
I repeat, strides are not about top speed. You don't need full recovery because you shouldn't be sprinting in the first place.
You are using terms that have completely different meanings for distance runners. -
This: your muscle tension is pretty much at the lowest point it's going to ever get after a LR. You've been going at a relatively slow pace for the most prolonged amount of time in your training, so your muscles have very low tension. Doing some strides will return some of the tension and you'll feel better and more springy the next day.
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Had Some Myself wrote:
I feel quite the opposite regarding post-long run strides. I feel like they help to kick off the recovery process better.
What about the Lydiard and Snell reasoning? I.e. depleting the slow twitch muscles during the long run leaves you training mostly fast twitch fibers at the end, thus enhancing the training effect on them. -
Concerned Runner wrote:
speed man wrote:
If you are doing strides to improve your top speed, then doing them during a run is wrong. You need full recovery.
Can anyone else comment on this? This is something I have been doing, and if I shouldn't be, I'd like to know that now, rather than waste my time doing it incorrectly.
If you are using the strides as recovery, then you need to do them after to allow for rest/recovery/lactic breakdown etc., etc., etc...
If you are doing them for speed, it is most beneficial to do them in the middle of the runs. -
Never give up, never surrender wrote: If you are doing them for speed, it is most beneficial to do them in the middle of the runs.
Really? I always thought you wouldn't be able to do them as smooth and as fast when they are packed into your run. So I thought it would be better for your speed to do them afterwards... -
You might be able to do them smoother at the end. However, putting the in the run best simulates what you need during a race, and helps your ability to accelerate or surge when you need to. The more often you insert these sprints/stride into your run, the smoother you will get.
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Pikachu wrote:
Never give up, never surrender wrote: If you are doing them for speed, it is most beneficial to do them in the middle of the runs.
Really? I always thought you wouldn't be able to do them as smooth and as fast when they are packed into your run. So I thought it would be better for your speed to do them afterwards...
I agree with Pikachu's trend of thought.
I find doing 20-30 second pickups during runs, at a pace probably close to mile effort with a couple minutes in between a good way to loosen up and open your stride up. A great recovery tool a day after a workout.
When I do strides after runs, they are always meant as speedwork and I use them to work on my mechanics and running economy. I take a nice chunk of time between them to recover and its not supposed to be an aerobic effort. They are also quicker and can range from mile pace all the way down to about 800m pace.
A sidenote suggestion for the OP wanting to stay warm while doing strides are to do diagonals--something done by many top kenyan distance runners. I like to do them for time... for example do 5 minutes of them and not really care about the distance covered. Find a field--infields of tracks, soccer fields, football fields are all awesome. Stride from one corner to the opposite... light jog across the endline then stride from the corner to the opposite corner and jog back to the beginning. When its nice out, I love doing them barefoot, especially on turf fields. -
edward teach wrote:
Its probably better to do them during your run. When are you ever going to have to run 60-100 meters at mile pace stop or jog and repeat it.
Please tell me you don't actually teach. Post run strides are not for training to "run for 60-100 meters at mile pace stop or jog and repeat it", they're for getting blood flow in your legs after a long period of slow easy running. Strides are also good for establishing muscle memory in your fast twitch muscle fibers so that you can run fast comfortably. Also a good time to focus on form (proper gate, knee lift, landing on your foot, etc.).
Please stop giving advice on topics you know nothing about. -
The whole point of doing them post run is tot get out of the long run rythm and stimulate better recovery. This the main benefit you will miss.
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I'd suggest strides after a short easy run. Stupid to do strides after a long run.
