Steve Scott the greatest american miler?

hitmonlee wrote:

I just think if you took them all in a time machine and had them run a mile race at their best, Steve Scott would win. Webb doesn't fancy himself a kicker, wasn't known for tactics. Ryun's best distance was probably the 800. So a Steve Scott giving it his all from gun to tape probably would be safe from both by the last 100 meters.Marty Liquori though, kind of an X factor, maybe he steals the finish from Scott.

I think Ryun wins.

He was the fastest, pure speed-wise.

He was in an era when they never had rabbits.

But, Scotts ability to drive farther out from the finish may help.

Webb's poor tactics leave him out.

Hitmonlee wrote:

Ran under 4:00 136 times and when Webb beat his record it was basically a time trial. If Scott ran a touch faster on lap 3 instead of saving it for the bell lap as in a real race he'd have outpaced Webb.

Yes, he was the greatest. Ryun likely had more natural talent, but Scott did more (yeah, Ryun won a silver at the altitude games, but...) and got the most out of himself. But in the end it's comparing apples and oranges.

Webb? Super talent, but hurt too often. Incredible Aouita-like range that Scott or Ryun could never hope to match even if transported to "today" with the improved training and tracks.

W.I.B.B. wrote:

"Scott is Back Baby!!!"

said no one ever.

There's a reason why Webb is the best. It's because Webb is the best.

Scott was never away.

Of course Scott is the best. Webb's 3:46.9 is actually mistimed at that bogus meet - it was 3:47.5 about. It was rigged; Scott is still actually the record holder, but Webb was very good too. Just couldn't reach his potential. Scott, so consistent, so damn good.

Seriously why has no one mentioned Bernard Lagat.

2007 gold medal beating

Rashid Ramzi -all doped up through the gills

Asbel Kiprop - up and coming - top 5 best 1500 runner ever

Alan Webb -top form

Nick Willis - top form

A bunch of doped up Spanish and Algerian athletes

Also has the AR in 1500 and should have his 3:27 as an American Record ratified soon.

Also

8x Wanamaker mile champ (most accomplished as us citizen)

I honestly think the correct list looks like this

1 Lagat

2 Ryun

3 Scott

4 Webb

5 manzano.

If he'd only waited wrote:

Steve Scott is my favorite American miler but it's hard to say he's better than Ryan.

I've always thought a medal was possible in LA in 1984 but he got caught up in the excitement and ran a poor tactical race.

Scott's tactics were probably a spontaneous strategy to try and beat the kick out of the 3 Brits. That first lap was too slow and was seemingly setting the race up for the kickers. Scott also knew of Ovett's bronchial problems and Cram's leg problems and probably thought he could get the race away from them before the last lap.

And the obvious rankings for the greatest US milers is as follows:

1. Ryun

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,

,

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2. Scott

3. Everyone else

Bad Wigins wrote:Ryun was one of those "talent" kids who starts running records right off the bat, plus doping was legal in his day so you never know.

utter drivel

6'2

greatest speed/endurance to step on track

with a mentality which took incredible punishment beyond today's belief !

next best over 800 or 1500 is not even worth spittoon

Ryun was not a championship performer. He underperformed when it counted most. He lacked the courage to front run in important heats and got tangled with lesser runners. Great talent though. Performed best in low key meets, much like Webb.

Scott doped like most of the guy did back then. Do you really think he is clean? To bad Steve Scott doesn\'t have the \"balls\" to shoe he is clean.

Westlake wrote:Ryun was not a championship performer. He underperformed when it counted most. He lacked the courage to front run in important heats and got tangled with lesser runners. Great talent though. Performed best in low key meets, much like Webb.

no

no human who has drawn breath couda lived with fast or slow 800 or 1500 with this

This is going to piss you off but Johnny Gray would probably beat him over 800, and Duane Solomon and Nick Symonds would be interesting. You probably think he could outrun David Rudisha though.

6' 3 greater speed endurance haha

My point exactly. Ryun, like Webb, ran his best performances when it mattered least. He lack the courage to run the 800m at the Olympics, despite running a world record in the event. He lacked the courage to front run his 1500m Olympic heats and got tripped up in the pack. Also, he was outclassed in the Mexico City Olympics and again lacked the courage to run the 800m there too. He was s great talent, but he was not a championship performer.

ventolin^3 wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:...plus doping was legal in his day so you never know.

... with a mentality which took incredible punishment beyond today's belief !

That mentality is precisely the advantage conferred by amphetamines and opiates.

No testing, no comparison. Scott and Webb were tested and passed.

Unfortunately, for Ryun, they don't award Olympic gold medals for winning Germany v. USA duel meets. Just like Webb blasting a 3:46 mile in an allcomers meet in Austria, Ryun ran his best when it mattered least. He was not a championship performer. Great talent though, but lacked the tactical skill to win at 1500m at the Olympic level and lacked the balls to compete at 800m at the Olympic level.

Bad Wigins wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

... with a mentality which took incredible punishment beyond today's belief !

That mentality is precisely the advantage conferred by amphetamines and opiates.

No testing, no comparison. Scott and Webb were tested and passed.

So did Marion Jones.

Ryun did all his stuff on cinders too. But he underperformed in big races. My rankings would go:

Scott

Ryun

Webb

Holman

Liquori

Holman is an odd case. Best mid distance guy we had in the 90s, always had strange things happen in US Championships.

Also, there were guys running lots of high mileage in the 90s...Kennedy and Williams.

Alan

Wow no one mentions kip? wrote:

Seriously why has no one mentioned Bernard Lagat.

2007 gold medal beating

Rashid Ramzi -all doped up through the gills

Asbel Kiprop - up and coming - top 5 best 1500 runner ever

Alan Webb -top form

Nick Willis - top form

A bunch of doped up Spanish and Algerian athletes

Also has the AR in 1500 and should have his 3:27 as an American Record ratified soon.

Also

8x Wanamaker mile champ (most accomplished as us citizen)

I honestly think the correct list looks like this

1 Lagat

2 Ryun

3 Scott

4 Webb

5 manzano.

+1

Lagat and Ryun toss up for me, mostly because Ryun set WRs and was ahead of his time, but you can't discount Lagat.

Ryun did not have World Championships to compete in. There was only the Olympics that "counted" as people seem to be using the term.. In 1964 he was a high school kid so I'd argue that realistically the meet that counted for him was the Trials. He had no real chance of a medal in '64. By Munich he was past his prime but still may have medalled if he'd been advanced to the finals after falling in his heat. That's not an uncommon practice though obviously not a given.

That leaves Mexico City as his one race that counted that was run at or close to the prime of his career. Even then he was likely past his peak as he'd had mono earlier that year and there had been some question as to whether he'd even be able to make the team. And Mexico City was not an even playing field for distance runners. Of the 15 medals won at distances beyond the 800 only 4 were won by athletes who had not grown up at high altitudes and only 2 of those medals were better than bronze. Ryun ran a tremendous race in Mexico. That people see an Olympic silver medal as "underperforming" is really a tribute to how great he was at his best.