51-Year-Old Recreational Masters Runner Tests Positive For Doctor Prescribed DHEA, Gets 1-Year Drug Ban

It strikes me that letsrun.com is trying to have it both ways, that using drugs that make you faster is bad and that it is okay if you aren't a professional but still competing against others. This is cheating and should be condemned. If she wants to take DHEA for some medical condition AND still compete at a high level, she needs to get permission from the right authorities and not complain when she is caught. In my view, there actually should not be therapeutic use exemptions at all, because things that give an artificial advantage should be excluded entirely. If they need treatment, then let them get treatment, but don't pervert the competition. Sit out while you are being treated and for the effective period of the use of the drug.

well I know from your posts that you are a knowledgable distance runner - I'm sure I don't know anything you don't.

Here's what I do differently from when I was younger:

1) lift. I now do around 200 body weight squats and or one legged deadlifts every day plus bicep curls or the like. lifting is weird - I really feel it has increased my testosterone - I feel different when I do a lot of lifting. And I seem to be able to maintain form better the last 10 minutes of a race. So I would look there.

2) I run more now. A week under 50 miles is a failure for me - I hit it around 1/2 the time. I used to aim for 40.

3) I do more tempos now and fewer 400s and 600s and the like.

4) on the intangible side...I really want it more now. I am moving up in the standings and beating people I never used to beat -- that has made the sport more fun - creating a self fulfilling cycle.

5) no MFing marathons. None. Never. They aren't good for me.

I don't even think about my diet - I am very small - 5 10, 135. That probably helps.

Im also 46 and my 5k times is close although I train for and comptete better for my age group at the marathon distance.

When you state you barely lost a step is this to say your top times stayed mostly the same (at least to the amount of training) all those years? How so? Would it be misleading to judge an abilty to stay close to your top performance levels when your top isn't much better than 35 years of results. No intent to insult or insuniate, just trying to gather information.

So many factors to consider as a master: with work, injuries and recovery time to deal with. While I seemed to start off well quickly at age 36 and spent the next 4 years building mileage and quality workouts to run a 2:36 at age 40, there have been improvements - slow and incremental but something tangible to show for years of training.

The mileage in recent years has varied in parts to life demands and in part to recovery time needed that I didn't need before. While I'm not slowing down much, I have to throttle back the mileage, number of workouts and how much I race throughout the year. I haven't progessed much beyond the 80% age graded mark across all distances - but over the relatively short ten years, I say my times did show improvements and I'm slowly inching up the age grade # through age not times.

Here in New England there's quite a good depth of master runners. Many guys were solid open runners. Some slowed and some didn't from their mid 40's and into early 50's. Some disappear and reappear a year or two at a time from injuries as a result of trying to train and compete like they haven't aged. Until just these past years I couldn't beat many of the top 40+ guys. Now their slipping down the result list below me one by one, as am I, as new master inductees are coming into the fold.

In the history of all humanity, father time is still, and will fovever remain, undefeated.

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking -

I suppose I'm saying that when I was in HS, I would regularly run 2 miles in around 10:20. I ran 10:very low once, but that was beamonesque. Now I can run around 10:35.

I am running more now - I probably ran 35 mpw in hs vs 50ish now. and i don't think I did a single tempo or long run in hs - just recovery runs, intervals and races. So I'm sure under a good coach I would have been faster in HS. So all things are not equal.

As for age grade % - I have been steadly moving up since I turned 40 - around a half percent per year. at age 40 a 77% was a good day - now at 47 I hit 82.5% this year.

Interestingly, a 10:10 two mile for a 17 year old is 81.5%. but that is on a track and I ran my 82.5 on the roads, so it's all a little apples to oranges.

well..... wrote:

Amazing how everyone online is a pious do-gooder yet in real life, the world is full of unmitigated DBs.

+alot

HaileUnlikely wrote:

We're talking about procedural knowledge, not biological knowledge. If not for their agents, most of the pros wouldn't even know how to apply for a waiver to clear their allergy meds and stuff. A normal person, who runs slowly and doesn't have an agent, would never be able to find out how to do this, or for that matter, find out that there is anything to do.

Bull. Not hard at all. If you follow the sport at all, you've heard discussions about PED use at the highest levels. And you've heard stories about athletes claiming that it was accidentally in some supplement.

So, if you've heard all that, and you're running a race that clearly states it will be testing, why the heck wouldn't you do a bit of googling. That's how I found

. By doing a bit of googling and visiting the USADA website.

By letsrun standards, I am a normal person who runs slowly. I don't have an agent. I had no problems finding the USADA website. And once you get there, there's tons of helpful tools, including global DRO. This is not hard stuff.

I shot up EPO three times a week for about 14 months.

I ran races as a masters runner while taking it.

This thread has led me to confess my sins right here and now.

However, I did happen to be on dialysis during that time due to kidney failure and I was so severely anemic even while taking EPO that I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without pausing to stop and rest.

But I was certainly a doper and it gave me such an advantage I could complete a 5K in roughly 30 minutes, about twice as slow as my PR.

The shame of it all. Please be gentle on this ex-doper.

rekrunner wrote:

Takes one to know one?

The fact is, she did not call herself a "competitive runner". Technically you lied.

Whatever she self-declares, finishing 40 minutes behind a 50 year old women does not make her a very "competitive runner" in any "masters competitions".

I know that idiot, I was quoting YOU! I quoted her saying on her website as "enjoying competitive running".

As you're the arbiter of what is competitive and what isn't perhaps you would like to go through say something like the New York marathon and tell us, using your rules and guidelines, who is competitive and who isn't, including open, age groups, gender, etc so we know who to dismiss as just "recreational" (note, I'm quoting you there from a previous post).

Also, if you're referring to the 2014 Pike Peaks Marathon regarding the 40 minutes, it was 25 minutes 49 seconds and you forgot to mention she was 7th female out of 182, most of whom were a lot younger than her. Whether it's enjoyable or not is up to the individual to decide, but it's "competitive running".

accept the fact that their is a thing called "aging".

MikeM wrote:

So if someones body is not self-regulating correctly what should they do?

Most normal people who enter races do not follow the sport at all, do not read stories about other athletes at all, likely never heard of Mo Trafeh or Liliya Shobukhova or Tyson Gay, have never heard of USADA, and have never heard of letsrun.

darkwave wrote:

Bull. Not hard at all. If you follow the sport at all, you've heard discussions about PED use at the highest levels. And you've heard stories about athletes claiming that it was accidentally in some supplement.

So, if you've heard all that, and you're running a race that clearly states it will be testing, why the heck wouldn't you do a bit of googling. That's how I found

http://www.globaldro.com/us-en/

. By doing a bit of googling and visiting the USADA website.

By letsrun standards, I am a normal person who runs slowly. I don't have an agent. I had no problems finding the USADA website. And once you get there, there's tons of helpful tools, including global DRO. This is not hard stuff.

pointon wrote:

4) on the intangible side...I really want it more now. I am moving up in the standings and beating people I never used to beat -- that has made the sport more fun - creating a self fulfilling cycle.

Yeh, someone else being "competitive" (in their running universe) and "enjoying" it. rekrunner please note.

HaileUnlikely wrote:

Most normal people who enter races do not follow the sport at all, do not read stories about other athletes at all,

we ain't talking so called normal people, we're talking people who should and do know better plus we're talking testosterone ffs which would ring alarm bells for even so called normal people as being a ped

I think whether she is a normal person or whether she should have known better is the central issue here. I don't think you or I really know whether she is a "normal" person or not, but what I have read so far leads me to believe that, other than being kind of fast for an old lady, is basically a normal person.

Being a track junkie who reads letsrun and stuff, I actually know about the process, but I have a hard time faulting a sane person who isn't a track junkie and isn't competing for money for not knowing about it.

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

You are missing several basic points:

1) USADA accepted her documentation that her DHEA usage was not for performance enhancement. She did not cheat.

I'm not sure this has been answered. Can you apply and get a TUE for DHEA?

I'm pretty sure you can not apply and get a TUE for Testosterone therapy.

There has been some Masters in the past that wanted to take testosterone only to get their levels up to normal levels. What would constitute normal levels? There is no way to determine that.

If you want to run USATF sanctioned events you can not take any banned substances. It does not matter if you place first or last. It would be in the contract that you sign when entering the race. If you need to take a banned medication, do not enter the race!

you couldn't

ffs we're talking dhea testosterone here and she looks like someone on it

There is no such thing as "dhea testosterone". There is DHEA, which has never been shown to have a PED effect. Drinking a Coke during an event would have a much greater ergogenic effect than a lifetime of DHEA use.

Freakin Idiot wrote:

you couldn't

ffs we're talking dhea testosterone here and she looks like someone on it

There is no such thing as "dhea testosterone". There is DHEA, which has never been shown to have a PED effect. Drinking a Coke during an event would have a much greater ergogenic effect than a lifetime of DHEA use.

we're "talking dhea testosterone here" not dhea is testosterone

you may be interested in this from Quackwatch

"In fact, about the only thing that researchers can agree on is that DHEA is easily converted into other hormones, especially estrogen and testosterone."

She's a sports therapy specialist. She very well knows the energy benefits of taking DHEA. Yes she does need it for personal reasons, but if that logic can be used then every runner who tests positive for EPO can find a doctor that says he/she has chronic anemia, some form of cancer, Crohns or anything else EPO can be used to treat.

Freakin Idiot? wrote:

Freakin Idiot wrote:

There is no such thing as "dhea testosterone". There is DHEA, which has never been shown to have a PED effect. Drinking a Coke during an event would have a much greater ergogenic effect than a lifetime of DHEA use.

we're "talking dhea testosterone here" not dhea is testosterone

you may be interested in this from Quackwatch

"In fact, about the only thing that researchers can agree on is that DHEA is easily converted into other hormones, especially estrogen and testosterone."

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dhea.html

Haha, classic, 'Freakin Idiot' chose an appropriate handle.

sbeefyk1 wrote:

She's a sports therapy specialist. She very well knows the energy benefits of taking DHEA. Yes she does need it for personal reasons, but if that logic can be used then every runner who tests positive for EPO can find a doctor that says he/she has chronic anemia, some form of cancer, Crohns or anything else EPO can be used to treat.

Right, because so many docs are just dying to lose their license.

Letsrun is full of goody two shoes types that know jack about PEDs. Comparing DHEA to Testosterone and EPO? It's like listening to a bunch of virgin nuns sitting around talking about making whoopy. They might put all such acts under the same umbrella, but a BJ ain't getting anyone pregnant and DHEA ain't making anyone run faster.

If DHEA worked it'd be a heck of a lot more expensive, more popular, and its use would be rampant.