51-Year-Old Recreational Masters Runner Tests Positive For Doctor Prescribed DHEA, Gets 1-Year Drug Ban

maybe I'm slow wrote:

ML wrote:

Why not look up the scant number of drug tests on top women over 55 and see just how safe it is for them to "cheat" for medical reasons.

I followed you until this last sentence where I don't understand what you are trying communicate. Maybe you could point me to where one can "look up the scant number of drug tests".

Are you saying that (1) few drug tests are conducted on the top over 55 women; and we are to somehow draw a conclusion where (2) it is safe or isn't safe for them to "cheat" for medical reasons?

Low dosing on 1.25 mg a day

Balian wrote:

Of course she's "bewildered". All drug cheats are bewildered.

Also,

"Kristi runs a physical therapy shop" and has "Bachelors Degree in Biology at University of Colorado and Masters Degree in Physical Therapy from University of Puget Sound in 1990."

So she would have had no idea that what she was taking was potentially performance enhancing hence her being "bewildered".

fred wrote:

If I was taking a drug for my health, and it gave me an advantage over other

runners, then I wouldn't race against them, because I didn't beat them, the drug did.

If I took a pill and became a giraffe, and which gave me an advantage over other runners, then I would be very surprised.

[quote]Soprano wrote:

http://masterstrack.com/2014/12/33461/

"Now, I know that there are masters runners who ask their doctor to prescribe stuff like testosterone for a competition advantage, but there are also those who actually need it. "

I don't think you can get a doctors pass and TUE for testosterone. At least I hope not because then it would be a completely unfair advantage.

Are there any Masters runners legally taking Testosterone?

Just because there are a fast Masters runners you can't assume they are on drugs.

I hope they can conduct more testing on a regular basis. Is there is a possibility in the future the testing could be less intrusive by taking a hair samples? There is enough money in Master competitions to insure that people are not cheating. Otherwise why am I spending my money to travel and run against cheaters.

Masters runners tend to spend a lot of money at the races because they travel and spend money. Look at the Carlsbad 5K. I'm sure the majority of the out of state runners are in the Masters field. Hotel and restaurants are big supporters of road races.

From the article:

"Traditional hormone therapies usually boost only the amount of a woman’s estrogen, but some women — such as Jager — benefit from the addition of synthetic testosterone."

Why do just "some" women benefit, and not all, from the added testosterone if its so great? Benefit how? Do they know it's actually 'necessary'? What are the side-effects and potential consequences?

"Instead of encouraging the fitness of older people, we’re discouraging fitness. That’s absolutely crazy!"

Rather, one could claim that the above argument is encouraging the fitness of older people thru resorting to drugs.

ML wrote:

Normal hormone replacement for women only hurts running ability with more estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone is not "normal" hormonal replacement for women.

That statement is just flat out wrong. Women have a normal range of testosterone level as well as estrogen and progesterone. My wife, who is not a masters runner, was prescribed HRT for bone density issues. After her doctor put her on an HRT prescription he tested her again and found that her testosterone level still was below normal. He told her that before trying another prescription he wanted her to try 50mg DHEA daily. This put her testosterone in the normal female range. (And the loss of bone density in her legs stopped after she went on HRT.)

rekrunner wrote:

I think your (and other's) outrage is misplaced.

This looks like a recreational lady who loves to run in the mountains.

But maybe my assumption is wrong.

It is, on her website she describes herself as enjoying "competitive running" and with her knowledge as mention above regarding occupation, education, etc, she would have known it was giving her competitive edge, disingenuous for her to indicate otherwise.

I'm not doc, but I'm sure many masters do have TUEs for T. here, usada has it as a choice on their TUE menu:

WADA doesn't even let you apply for TUEs in advance unless you're actually relevant nationally or internationally. All the normal people are supposed to apply retroactively after failing a test. If she wanted one she could have applied after.

senior citizen athlete wrote:

That statement is just flat out wrong. Women have a normal range of testosterone level as well as estrogen and progesterone. My wife, who is not a masters runner, was prescribed HRT for bone density issues. After her doctor put her on an HRT prescription he tested her again and found that her testosterone level still was below normal. He told her that before trying another prescription he wanted her to try 50mg DHEA daily. This put her testosterone in the normal female range. (And the loss of bone density in her legs stopped after she went on HRT.)

This is the point. Is the DHEA putting her at levels that get her back to normal 51 y/o woman ranges or not? So many people are assuming that they are supra-normal. That was not what I got out of reading things. I understood it put her back to normal ranges and back on a level field with all other 50 something women. People who are at biologically lower levels of any necessary bodily chemical or hormone should not be vilified for taking something they need.

If however this puts her at levels that are higher, then that is easy to adjudicate and she should not be allowed to compete for awards.

[quote]ML wrote:

As a 60+ female with 40 years of competition (elite in the early days,) I am very happy that this woman was caught. The decline in performance for women over 50 is demoralizing to all women, especially when some women seem to consistently defy their years.

THIS. There are several women in the 50+ age group who are sprinting and running faster than they did 10 years ago. Their times are easily checked on the internet. Why, you ask? Some are coaches and trainers, and success in masters athletics would certainly bolster their professional status, leading to more assignments and plum coaching positions. Follow the money.

xenonscreams wrote:

WADA doesn't even let you apply for TUEs in advance unless you're actually relevant nationally or internationally. All the normal people are supposed to apply retroactively after failing a test. If she wanted one she could have applied after.

I just looked on USADA's site and I stand corrected since DHEA is prohibited OOC. For OOC I guess you need a TUE ahead of time regardless of who you are. Whatever. Anyone who's on a prohibited substance and cares about this stuff should know the regulations ahead of time. Clearly, she doesn't care that much. I agree it's a waste of USADA's resources though.

MikeM wrote:

If however this puts her at levels that are higher, then that is easy to adjudicate and she should not be allowed to compete for awards.

Are the levels made public?

I seen it wrote:

[quote]ML wrote:

As a 60+ female with 40 years of competition (elite in the early days,) I am very happy that this woman was caught. The decline in performance for women over 50 is demoralizing to all women, especially when some women seem to consistently defy their years.

THIS. There are several women in the 50+ age group who are sprinting and running faster than they did 10 years ago. Their times are easily checked on the internet. Why, you ask? Some are coaches and trainers, and success in masters athletics would certainly bolster their professional status, leading to more assignments and plum coaching positions. Follow the money.

I challenge

"would certainly bolster their professional status"?

for women's masters athletics??

Do any coaches actually get paid at that level? I mean even pro coaches work for free sometimes.

Can you name any coaches who bolstered their brand coaching masters women or men?

I seen it wrote:

success in masters athletics would certainly bolster their professional status, Follow the money.

Don't forget ego.

agip wrote:

I challenge

"would certainly bolster their professional status"?

for women's masters athletics??

Do any coaches actually get paid at that level? I mean even pro coaches work for free sometimes.

Can you name any coaches who bolstered their brand coaching masters women or men?

Here's one world record holder:

You worded it wrong - they aren't necessarily coaching masters -there are MANY masters athletes who coach at the high school and college level all the way up to the national class level. As a successful masters athlete they can bolster their reputation and resume to train and coach at other levels. I'm not saying being a successful masters athlete is the only thing they need. But it certainly helps to put "world age-group record holder" on your coaching or training website.

xenonscreams wrote:

I just looked on USADA's site and I stand corrected since DHEA is prohibited OOC. For OOC I guess you need a TUE ahead of time regardless of who you are. Whatever. Anyone who's on a prohibited substance and cares about this stuff should know the regulations ahead of time. Clearly, she doesn't care that much. I agree it's a waste of USADA's resources though.

On the last point, I tend to agree but it appears the race organizer asked for the testing and I presume paid for it. I'm not sure what the alternative is.

The woman comes across as disingenuous considering her backgound and Ken Stone has managed to yet again end up on the wrong side of an argument.

I have a biology degree, a masters in physical therapy and I'll sign off on the drug test knowing that I take DHEA and everything will work out just fine.

Soprano wrote:

http://masterstrack.com/2014/12/33461/

What do you all think about this?

masterstrack.com: "Her case (Kristi) illustrates (again) what happens when a one-size-fits-all antidoping system bumps up against age-groupers with legitimate medical needs. Ask Kathy Jager."

One worrying thing is that masterstrack.com seen to be siding with her, not only her but this Jager woman:

I get the feeling that this sort of thing is rife in masters athletics. Hope they keep testing.