This ongoing disagreement between my friend and me has components of male-female and elite-amateur issues but I'll just ask it as a straight up question.
When a group of 5-10 athletes of similar ability are runing repeats of 800-1600 what should the group formation look like?
Settle this Debate: How to run intervals as a group
Training Advice/Discussion
5k/10k
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You should run beside each other around the track the whole way. The faster runners should be on the outside so you can all finish at the same time.
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Each person should start two seconds apart, that way everyone (except the first guy) has a pacer and can be on the inside lane. After each rep, the guy who led the last one moves to the back.
Or you could just run in a pack and get used to it. -
Together, for the most part. Or, slower group together then faster group together. If only one person is an outlier then they can either run shorter or longer.
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Take turns leading and otherwise run it like a pack or some may like the rear or who cares.
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10 together on the track is a little tight. I would break it in half and give the other group a little gap so not to trip over each other. In terms of whos leading its good to switch off you leads the first half of the interval on pace unless you have someone who ones to lead out the whole time. I was one who was good at pacing and leading the long stuff but on days when running paces at mile pace or quicker i had to follow rather than lead.
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You just send everyone off together and people fall into place like a race.
But you have a pace to hit, so there should be no looking around at each other and slowing down.
People will step up and lead reps as they feel.
It doesn't need to be over-thought.
No formation. You just go. -
John Wesley Harding wrote:
or who cares.
Correct answer.
How on earth could anyone spend any time debating this? -
In a line. Everyone should have their own watches and should start them as they cross the starting line. Switch up the lead based on feel. If the athletes are serious they won't be making moves on each other, and will hit their designated paces.
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The faster runners do extra repeats/more distance and run in front if the slower athletes get tired.
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ding ding ding! wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
or who cares.
Correct answer.
How on earth could anyone spend any time debating this?
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
My teammates and I are constantly harassed by the group of men that train at the same time as our group on Tuesday nights. As they pass the yell "Track" or "Lane One!". We had a "Come to Jesus" meeting between our groups and their opinion was that we should stay in lane 1 but only in single file so they could pass. Our position is "as long as we are running a hard effort we're entitled to the first two lanes". We tend to run together as a tight pack. -
Ball Zach wrote:
In a line. Everyone should have their own watches and should start them as they cross the starting line. Switch up the lead based on feel. If the athletes are serious they won't be making moves on each other, and will hit their designated paces.
This. For big group workouts in college we would have a long line of us doing that. Depending on the workout, we might end up bunching up a bit at the end, so the guys who started in the back and moved up ran a bit quick, but other than that it works well. We'd also sometimes start in broken up groups and other times it would just naturally happen as some people ran faster and others slower.
I Feel Like wrote:
ding ding ding! wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
or who cares.
Correct answer.
How on earth could anyone spend any time debating this?
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
My teammates and I are constantly harassed by the group of men that train at the same time as our group on Tuesday nights. As they pass the yell "Track" or "Lane One!". We had a "Come to Jesus" meeting between our groups and their opinion was that we should stay in lane 1 but only in single file so they could pass. Our position is "as long as we are running a hard effort we're entitled to the first two lanes". We tend to run together as a tight pack.
I guess I don't know the exact situation here, but assuming both groups are using a public track that has open hours, then no, this other group should not be forced to run into lane 3 to pass your group. When they yell "track" you should all move into lane 1 to let them pass in lane 2. Common courtesy.
Now if your'e a college team and this is your home track, it's a different story. They'd be "visitors" on your track and you would have priority to workout the way you want.
This topic makes me miss college workouts. Since graduating, if me and one other guy are doing a whole workout together on the track, then that is a great day. Happens pretty rarely and I miss the big group workouts. There were things I could do in that setting that I never would have done solo. (This can be a negative aspect too if you end up pushing too hard, but usually it helped rather than hurt.) -
ding ding ding! wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
or who cares.
Correct answer.
How on earth could anyone spend any time debating this?
This. Step to the line, and run your rep at the designated pace. Who cares whether you end up in a single file line or a pack? I can't think of any benefit to be had from planning a formation prior to the workout. -
Back in the old college we had 10 guys between 13:33 and 14:13 one year. It was quite special to say the least and a similar situation to what you're referencing.
On days when we'd all be together (some of us were 1500, 5k focused while others were 5k, 10k focused) for sessions we'd pick a buddy so we could have 2 people breaking the wind each rep. Leads would alternate by rep (if 800m or shorter) or every 500-800m (if longer than 800m).
This generally meant that if we had 7-10 miles of work (tempo or track work), then you'd only have to lead about 1-2 miles of it - it was perfect.
Boom, there's your answer: 2 wide and lined up to draft and chill. -
OP
The ultimate goal is to all finish each interval right around the same time.
This is achieved in an obvious manner. The slower goes first, with faster later or last. Time between starts varies.
Finish the interval together, jog for recover. Go again. -
supcolupor wrote:
The faster runners do extra repeats/more distance and run in front if the slower athletes get tired.
No.
The faster runners run faster. -
doesn't matter wrote:
ding ding ding! wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
or who cares.
Correct answer.
How on earth could anyone spend any time debating this?
This. Step to the line, and run your rep at the designated pace. Who cares whether you end up in a single file line or a pack? I can't think of any benefit to be had from planning a formation prior to the workout.
Clearly the real issue is that two groups are using the track at the same time and the disagreement is over lane 1 protocol similar to the argument about lapped runners in a 10k. So it does matter.
I say any group needs to stay in lane 1 either in a straight line or a staggered pack. When group 2 passes they can easily shift to lane 2 to pass without adding too much distance. I've seen women, especially, running 2-3 across and taking up the first two lanes. As a coach I'd be upset because the outside runners are either wasting energy or not running fast enough.
What's that quote? "Show me five people running together and I'll show you four guys running the wrong pace." -
If they truly are of similar ability, they should all run together and share leading duties over the workout. One runner might lead two, then another might lead two, etc. If reps are long (1600m or longer) and/or it's windy, runners might share leading duties within a rep. The whole group should work to keep order and keep pace where it's supposed to be and not too fast or too slow. If reps are run on the track, the pack should run no more than two abreast. If reps are run on a course or road, formation can take the form of a marathon pack of runners where it's more of a ball shape.
The big thing for stuff like this is to not have runners of significantly different abilities run reps together. A 14:00 5k guy should not be running reps with a 15:00 5k guy for instance. Either the 14:00 guy will not be running fast enough, or the 15:00 guy will be running too hard on each one. The only exception is when reps are so short that 1-2 seconds makes little difference, like reps of 200m or so. The fast guy might be running 30s while the slow guy might be running 31. -
Soprano wrote:
When they yell "track" you should all move into lane 1 to let them pass in lane 2. Common courtesy.
In my experience, yelling "track" was always used as a signal for slower runners to vacate lane 1, not lane 2. -
I Feel Like wrote:
My teammates and I are constantly harassed by the group of men that train at the same time as our group on Tuesday nights. As they pass the yell "Track" or "Lane One!". We had a "Come to Jesus" meeting between our groups and their opinion was that we should stay in lane 1 but only in single file so they could pass. Our position is "as long as we are running a hard effort we're entitled to the first two lanes". We tend to run together as a tight pack.
Do they lap you? Perhaps you could come to an agreement where their recovery period is your workout or vice versa, or you could give each other a 300m head start.
