A FANTASTIC read: The inside scoop on Seb Coe's 1984 Olympic prep work - training alone and living with Joe Newton

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9 years ago 09/16/2014 6:36am EDT

re: ventolin^3

ventolin^3 wrote:
Welsh Wizard wrote:You are an utter clown
moron
clueless as usual
You've been saying on these boards for years that Aouita's 36.1 is a nonsense, whenever it is brought up re. Ryun's Dusseldorf run.
idiot
aouita's run has no splits mentioned apart from a 36.1 in a 3'34.8
no last lap split
no preceding splits
your peabrain can't seem to think
we now have souly, a known 3'29.5 guy finishing with a 36.8 in a 3'48
aouita in '84 had a nominal 3'31.5pb with claimed 36.1 in a 3'34.8
that woud imply aouita was in 1/2 dozen secs better shape than souly over 1500 in '84
Now you quote it to put down someone else's comments. Convenient that
no
because the fool can't provide a bottom line
irrelevant what training was, it's relevant what limits were
his limit in '84 was
~ 1.42-mid/high , 3'29-flat/low
You do it all the time. You are irrational and hypercritical
nonsense
i want absolute potential
Either accept Aouita's 36.1 as legit and thus better than Ryun's closing split or deny it is accurate
i don't accept aouita's finish
impress me
use your peabrain & tell me what flat-out 1500 shape a 36.1 finish in a 3'34.8 -> for 1500 & also even 800 ???
You conveniently straddle both opposing arguments and drop down on the side that is convenient at the time. You are what is known as, 'an unreliable witness.'
fool
tell me what 36.1 finish in 3'34.8 -> for flat-out 1500 or 800 ???
then discuss if it is a credible clocking

You just said Coe was in well under 3:30 shape and woulda been crushed by Aouita in '84 so you tell us.

9 years ago 09/16/2014 4:00pm EDT

re: Straw M Thoroughman

Straw M Thoroughman wrote:You just said Coe was in well under 3:30 shape and woulda been crushed by Aouita in '84 so you tell us

learn to read

i said i have no faith in 36.1 in a 3'34.8

that woud imply

~ 3'23/3'24

shape

i can't be more precise than that as that is a new type of estimate with lotta variables - much easier if same pace to 1200 then just a 300 kick

but

this does not mean aouita wasn't in wr 1500 shape in '84 - big wr shape

i have little doubt he was good for 12'55 in a perfect 5k in temperate weather

he ran no serious 800 in '84, but had a 1'44.3pb from '83 when just raw

i have no doubt he was good for 1'44.0 - 1'45.0 in '84 in a perfect 800 & if someone wanted to claim more like 1'43-mid/high, it's no big deal - he ran 1'44-flat in '88 when well past his peak with a strapped thigh & ~ 6m extra distance on bends

12'55 with

1'45.0 ->3'29.1

1'44.5 ->3'28.5

1'44.0 ->3'27.9

if aouita had run only 1500 in games, he wouda hammered coe if it was fast from gun

as it was with fast last 700, he still wouda won comfortably

aouita was likely little different between '84/'85

you peak for a games year not a nothing year like '85

in '85 he hammered a 52.8 in a 3'29.7

incredible speed in a wr race & he ran extra wide on bends - the full vid is no longer on youtube, but iirc he ran a significant extra distance on bends, somewhere in 5 - 10m region iirc

9 years ago 09/16/2014 4:16pm EDT

re: Straw M Thoroughman

Straw M Thoroughman wrote:Don't get carried away like ventolin

nonsense

like i did with mo 3'28

i offer as unbiased/unequivocal estimate as possible

He does it with Ryun's races

nonsense

i have more confidence in Ryun

1'39.9 / 3'24.2

than i did before mo-3'28

you have no clue about how fast guys can run if forced to run flat-out

see this year's example of bosse who went from 1'43.7 to 1'42.5

9 years ago 09/16/2014 6:11pm EDT

re: ventolin^3

ventolin^3 wrote:
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:Don't get carried away like ventolin
nonsense
like i did with mo 3'28
i offer as unbiased/unequivocal estimate as possible
He does it with Ryun's races
nonsense
i have more confidence in Ryun
1'39.9 / 3'24.2
than i did before mo-3'28
you have no clue about how fast guys can run if forced to run flat-out
see this year's example of bosse who went from 1'43.7 to 1'42.5

The difference of course being that Mo did and Ryun didn't.

6 years ago 12/28/2017 10:59am EST

re: Deanouk

Deano Session 3 doesn't make sense - running 300s in around 39 / 40 with 20 sec (or thereabouts recovery. That's around world record pace for 5000 with a very fast 300 each lap

Deanouk wrote:
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
The legends grow with time and you believe them. You probably weren't even born when this happened.
Remember Coe had already done a 1:43 before he did this supposed training.
He would have won the 800 in 1:39 if he actually improved that much over three workouts.
None of his reported workouts when he was actually competing were so embellished.
They keep getting better with the re-telling.
Newton is a fawning fanboy.
Here are some workouts Coe did that were documented at the time he was running, which would tend to support what 'Reader of the Forums' has found as evidence.
1) Article/interview in L'Equipe magazine (19.12.1981) with Robert Pariente: -
translated from French - 2 sets of 3 x 300m (20 secs rest between reps) in 36-37 secs, with 5 mins between sets.
2) From "Sebastian Coe: Coming Back" published in 1984: - " After I'd been there (Chicago) a week, working hard in high temperatures, I had the first indication that things were going well, with a series of 20 x 200m, the first 10 with 25 secs recovery, the second 10 with 35 to 40 seconds recovery. The times were mainly around 26 seconds, but the last one was 22.5, against a personal best ever of 21.7 (from 1981)"
It ten goes on to explain that his 1:43 in Oslo was not indicative of him already being in great shape prior to LA. At the time he said in an interview post race in Oslo, that he was in about 70 -75%....."I'd not been able to produce such high quality at the end of a series since 1981. Throughout my career I've never had difficulty running the occasional one -off race with speed, irrespective of training circumstances." (P.93)
3) Interview with Mel Watman in Athletics Weekly (Dec 7th 1985): -
'Seb can usually gauge with some accuracy when he is ready to run at his very best....."In training sessions the 300m is a very good yardstick, particularly if I can stick 8 or 10 of them together with a fairly brisk 100m jog recovery. Before the Olympics last year I was running 39s and 40s, the 100m jog recovery dropping down to about 20 seconds, and trying to rattle through the last one in 37 and bits, which to me is a good indication I'm in reasonable shape." That would back up as an 'average' of the 3 sessions Newton claims he saw and timed.
'Other training workouts include 1200m repetitions, sometimes in as fast as 2:52/2:53....."and it's still pretty tasty to go out and run 15 or 20 quarters in 61, even with a minute or jog 200m recovery."

6 years ago 12/28/2017 12:44pm EST

re: Straw M Thoroughman

Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
It was not reported that way when it happened nor was there any evidence of said training in BTFDR.
That is equally compelling evidence.
Jesus is also said to have walked on water but not during the time period when he was alive.

Not a good comparison as most of the Apostles (who were contemporaries of Jesus) went to their deaths testifying about his greatness. They could have caved and said, "OK, we were lying about him," to spare their own lives. There is nothing to indicate they did. Further, discounting these accounts because they were not written until decades after the crucifixion of Jesus reflects an anachronistic emphasis on the written word.

6 years ago 12/28/2017 3:34pm EST

re: ventolin^3

Amazing the similarity between this post from ventolin^3 and the current calculo posts! Not only is the info within the post exactly the same, so is the formatting! Not sure why the mods allow him to change every thread that mention Coe in to a Jim Ryun love fest.

6 years ago 12/28/2017 3:37pm EST

re: JRinaldi

JRinaldi wrote:
Amazing the similarity between this post from ventolin^3 and the current calculo posts! Not only is the info within the post exactly the same, so is the formatting! Not sure why the mods allow him to change every thread that mention Coe in to a Jim Ryun love fest.

The 1:39.9 is now 1:38, that's the only difference.

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A FANTASTIC read: The inside scoop on Seb Coe's 1984 Olympic prep work - training alone and living with Joe Newton

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