Renato Canova: Can you explain why Galen Rupp can run 26:44 for 10,000 but only 13 flat for 5k?

Pointer out of stuff wrote:

a hack wrote:

Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.

Renato said in his post he thought it was psychological

He certainly isn't a natural winner in the biggest races.

But then again it took Farah several years to get his head together. I think that Farah wants it more though. Often Rupp seems to give up on the last lap.

farah's kick all due to igf-1 lr3 .

rupp just doesnt respond very well to it in that way.

lets see if rupp can get even near to 10,000m pb

next year when high hct due to xenon is not allowed,

as excuse .

iaaf are corrupt to core ,

could of stopped xenon use at start of summer but

not when afew fast times to be had by NOPERS .

HIGHLY dought any other athletes in elite bracket besides

him and farah have access to it anyway .

So after todays race, would you still claim that he cannot contend for an intl championship medal at 5000? He clearly has the speed/kick to contend for a medal in any 13:00 - 13:40 5000. He just hasn't shown the strength to be able to double back after a 10,000 race and then a 5,000 semi. But the list of guys who can pull that off and be a medal threat in both consists of maybe three runners in the last decade.

a hack wrote:

Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.

Let's think about what True & Mead ran at Cardinal this year with perfect conditions and ideal pacing. THEY are 13:00 5K runners. Rupp has made them look like also rans all summer long, and that is no disrespect to them. It just means that the diamond league circuit has not been about fast 5Ks for the best guys, it's just been about wins/points. Rupp has one flat 5000 that turned out to have a fast finishing time, but there are at least 5 guys on the circuit who can run between 12:47-12:52 right now and how many of them have done it? None.

These guys are chasing points, not pace. Rupp has at least two years on the track left, if he is in a race that has one or two motivated guys after 12:50 pace we'll see what he's capable of, and it's a whole lot better than what the other Americans ran at Cardinal this year.

True and Mead very likely peaked early and so when you refer to them as 13:00 5k runners, it is as if you do not comprehend that fitness is dynamic and not static.

It seems clear that Galen is never going to run faster than 12:58, as he has had MANY chances and he just CANNOT do it. Canova and I, among many others, understand this, but the fanboys and ventolin appear to be incapable of fathoming reality here...

And can someone explain why Longowisa, Ndiku, Soi and Alamirew could do no better than 12:59 this year?

Alamirew has a 12:48 PR and couldn't break 13 this year.

That's an absurd statement to make. Rupp is most likely approaching his peak as an athlete in the coming years. If these 5000s were all being won in 12:50, it would be clear that he's nowhere near that kind of shape running 10 seconds back, yet he is in the mix consistently. Don't jump to conclusions there is still plenty of time.

Sledge wrote:

reginald denny wrote:

True and Mead very likely peaked early and so when you refer to them as 13:00 5k runners, it is as if you do not comprehend that fitness is dynamic and not static.

It seems clear that Galen is never going to run faster than 12:58, as he has had MANY chances and he just CANNOT do it. Canova and I, among many others, understand this, but the fanboys and ventolin appear to be incapable of fathoming reality here...

That's an absurd statement to make. Rupp is most likely approaching his peak as an athlete in the coming years. If these 5000s were all being won in 12:50, it would be clear that he's nowhere near that kind of shape running 10 seconds back, yet he is in the mix consistently. Don't jump to conclusions there is still plenty of time.

Why would a distance runner who has been training hard for years be "approaching his peak in the coming years" when he turns 29 next year? It makes no sense. Why is he not improving at 5000m? He cannot break 13 minutes, or at least if he could, it wouldn't be by much. The reason he cannot kick faster is because he is running close to his limit. It is time for a reality check for the fanboys...

You're right. It wouldn't be by much, and in fact it wasn't: 12:58.9 and it was over two years ago.

learn to read & consider it's context

& then also learn to think

red herring in terms of fact that perfect drafting woud require the pacer as a pre-requisite to be helluva lot taller than elite, so that there is total surface area blockage

Rupp is listed at 5'11 by usatf which is tremendously tall for a 5k/10k guy

his pacer shoud be 6'2/6'3 for ideal "air blockage"

sambuu at 5'6 offers virtually nothing for drafting unless elite behind is 5'3/5'4

as for 1s/lap for drafting, the calculations using wind-altitude calculator using method suggested by asterix on t&f board in '04 - the best pieces of original thinking i have seen on any foum in 15y+, suggests perfect drafting, if homunculi are virtually inseparable is

~ 1.5s/lap

the most realistic figure for guy step behind, which is best physically possible without tripping, from anecdotal observation/athlete capabilities, i have revised down from commonly quoted 1s/lap to

~ 0.7s/lap

drafting is much less important than believed

but he wouda still wouda whupped himself into ~ 26'30/26'35 shape for wc or woudn't have bothered turning up as he had to assume that any slower woudn't win if race fast

nonsense

he looked in 26'30/26'35 shape there but 13'25 target split won't get you that

little better than 26'45, which is what happened

no

he wasn't sure of his post-daegu recovery, but he looked fully recovered in brussels

a 13'25 pacer was a mistake

he shouda asked for 13'15/13'20 & forced lucas to 26'30/26'35 & Rupp close behind

because lucas was in 26'30/26'35 shape but will never win a sprint v even a sub-par kennster, but he mighta won off 13'15/13'20 1st 5k, breaking kennster in last 400 - 600

no

a 5'6 runt offers little help to a 5'11 guy

to fail to observe/analyse evinces a pitiable degree of neuronal ability...

Ventolin, your display of intellectual dishonesty and outright hypocrisy is such that you do not even deserve a reply.

What a crock of b.s. You have always had orgasms over the benefit a runner could get from drafting, and now you are saying it is overrated.

Next you start making statements about height and that a taller runner gets virtually no benefit from following a shorter runner. How stupid are you?

Then you start imputing fitness to Kenenisa and Rotich that they didn't have in 2011.

You have no ability to remain credible when your need to convince yourself that your delusions are reality is so staggering.

this drivel barely deserves a reply

nonsense

i went back & looked at theoretical limit for drafting

learn to read : absolute is ~ 1.5s/lap

the best realistically possible is reckoned to be ~ 1.0s/lap

a lot of race obsrvation & i reckon it's more like ~ 0.7s/lp

moron

can't you do even basic thinking ???

do you think if a 5'0 guy paces a 6'3 guy, the drafting offered woud be the same as if a 7'5 guy paced the 6'3 er ???

utter nonsense

lucas blasted the last 800 showing he had plenty of reserve not used up to 9200m

it took everything kennster had to win it

they were both helluva lot better than 26'43+ actual but unambitious 13'25 split won't let these guys maximise performance

drivel

learn to think & watch helluva lot more races