Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.
Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.
a hack wrote:
Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.
His mile is overrated because it was run indoors. Rupp has not proven he can run a fast mile or 1500m outdoors.
fast_bike wrote:Ventolin^3 should answer the question given that, in another thread, was suggesting Mutai was able to run 26’10 for a 10k and Abshero, having a 13’11, could run 26’40 for a 10k
learn to read idiot
i said 26'10/26'20 for geoffrey in his new york 2"05 shape
meaning blasting it from gun like mo did in his 3'28
as for abshero, read again for umpteenth time you moron
he ran 13'11 as a raw 18y ole
he wouda been hugely faster at 20y at 5k/10k even preparing for M
somewhere in 26'50/27'00 shape when running 2"04+
a hack wrote:Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him
exactly
it is nonsense
anyone who watched his 26'44 knew he had ~ 10s faster in him
his 1500/mile speed may not be great this year, maybe only 3'34 / 3'35 ( he wouda been much faster last year )
if in eugene instead of that 10k, if he'd run perfect other distances, his limit couda been
3'34 - 3'35 / 26'35 ->
4'50.5 - 4'51.6
7'26.5 - 7'27.8
12'46.8 - 12'48.0
he has been a shadow of his expected form since eugene
You can easily see that Rupp wasn't at his best last 5k. Still he runs 13:06, you really think he can never run a PB in this distance again? I think he can run low 12:50s when in good form. Just needs good race.
said88 wrote:
Look at the difference for:
Eliud Kipchoge, Dejene Gebremeskel, Thomas Longosiwa, Brahim Lahlafi, Mohammed Mourhit (all in the top-15 all-time over 5000m).
I don't want to do the math at the moment, but it's WELL over 1 minute for most of them. Because they are more like 5000m specialists (or havn't come close to there 10k potential).
Renato Canova's statistics showes the best over 10000m (who are obviously better (most of them) over 10k than over 5k or havn't come close to there 5k potential (like Wanjiru)).
You are wrong about Mohammed Mourhit. Long before his 10000m and 5000m pbs he was a HM runner specilist and did participate in cross (wins World Cross Country champs twice) and road runs. This is not the profile of a 5000m run specialist.
A 10000m specialist that runs 5000m as well. That´s what Galen Rupp is precisely, he is not a 5000m specilist running 10000m. Therfore when Renato shows the list of 10000m specilists relted with thier 5000m pb´s he is right because he relates all that to Galen Rupp.
a hack wrote:
Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.
Renato said in his post he thought it was psychological
I feel that Rupp just doesn't have the specific "speed endurance" to go much faster in a 5000. Like has been on this thread, he is a 10000 guy coming down to race the 5000. I personally feel his sweet spot is 10000 to half-marathon.
All these 5000 meter races will help his 100000 though.
I watched it live wrote:
Perspectivation wrote:.....While I agree that he seems to lack the last gear to win a diamond league 5000, he certainly has the ability to finish in the "medals", and contend for a 2nd or 3rd.
.
Finish in the medals for what? Not the 5000m. He's run under 13:00 one time so that should be the outlier. I don't understand the mystery here. He has consistently shown that in the 5000m in international competitions, that he does not have the speed to compete in the bell lap. That's nothing to be ashamed of and I'm ok with that. He's a great 10000m runner for sure. I just don't understand why people can't accept what he is. He isn't going to run a fast 5000m all of a sudden. I'm not sure what he could have possibly done to make you think that the can contend for 2nd or 3rd in a championship race. Especially a slow sit and kick race. He, not unlike other Americans who have broken 13:00, benefits from a fast, even pace. When kicking off of a slow pace he's just not that effective.
I thought I made it clear in my response that I was referring to the "medals" in a diamond league 5000. In many cases a diamond league 5000 can be tougher competition than an international championship 5000. Also, I think you are completely wrong about not not being able to be a medal contender in an international championship 5000. I would agree however that he probably doesn't have the ability to medal AFTER racing the 10,000 and a 5000 heat first, which is the only way he's tried it thus far.
I don't think that means he can't run 12:5x low and contend for top spots in most DIAMOND LEAGUE 5000's though since he is not racing a 10000 days before.
reginald denny wrote:
a hack wrote:Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in him.
His mile is overrated because it was run indoors. Rupp has not proven he can run a fast mile or 1500m outdoors.
He ran 3:39 in college at Regionals after his 10K the night before. He ran 3:34 as a season opener at Oxy a couple years ago. His training partner barely beat him in that race, and then went 3:29 later. I don't think Rupp's mile is overrated.
ventolin^3 wrote:
a hack wrote:Sorry but I still don't get the logic of Rupps good mile time being reflected in his 10k but not his 5k. I think he still has a significantly better 5k in himexactly
it is nonsense
anyone who watched his 26'44 knew he had ~ 10s faster in him
his 1500/mile speed may not be great this year, maybe only 3'34 / 3'35 ( he wouda been much faster last year )
if in eugene instead of that 10k, if he'd run perfect other distances, his limit couda been
3'34 - 3'35 / 26'35 ->
4'50.5 - 4'51.6
7'26.5 - 7'27.8
12'46.8 - 12'48.0
he has been a shadow of his expected form since eugene
No, he has been a "shadow of his expected form" for you. He has been exactly what I expected him to be...You might want to occasionally pay attention to Canova rather than your calculator.
I don't think it's a matter of not having enough closing speed - the guy ran 3:50 indoors and hangs with Farah in practice, not to mention that 1:56 closer for his 10000m. He has speed.
The problem is he's exhausted with 500m to go. You can't kick if you're too tired. His races follow a familiar pattern of going out fast - slowing down - then getting left behind.
Whereas Farah usually hangs back and waits until 800m to go before putting a decisive move. Rupp just lacks patience.
António Cabral wrote:
said88 wrote:Look at the difference for:
Eliud Kipchoge, Dejene Gebremeskel, Thomas Longosiwa, Brahim Lahlafi, Mohammed Mourhit (all in the top-15 all-time over 5000m).
I don't want to do the math at the moment, but it's WELL over 1 minute for most of them. Because they are more like 5000m specialists (or havn't come close to there 10k potential).
Renato Canova's statistics showes the best over 10000m (who are obviously better (most of them) over 10k than over 5k or havn't come close to there 5k potential (like Wanjiru)).
You are wrong about Mohammed Mourhit. Long before his 10000m and 5000m pbs he was a HM runner specilist and did participate in cross (wins World Cross Country champs twice) and road runs. This is not the profile of a 5000m run specialist.
A 10000m specialist that runs 5000m as well. That´s what Galen Rupp is precisely, he is not a 5000m specilist running 10000m. Therfore when Renato shows the list of 10000m specilists relted with thier 5000m pb´s he is right because he relates all that to Galen Rupp.
Are you forgetting he got busted for the use of PEDs?
321654 wrote:
António Cabral wrote:You are wrong about Mohammed Mourhit. Long before his 10000m and 5000m pbs he was a HM runner specilist and did participate in cross (wins World Cross Country champs twice) and road runs. This is not the profile of a 5000m run specialist.
A 10000m specialist that runs 5000m as well. That´s what Galen Rupp is precisely, he is not a 5000m specilist running 10000m. Therfore when Renato shows the list of 10000m specilists relted with thier 5000m pb´s he is right because he relates all that to Galen Rupp.
Are you forgetting he got busted for the use of PEDs?
But how does that really matter in terms of his personal bests? I suppose it could matter, but how is this relevant here?
Rupperonis wrote:
I don't think it's a matter of not having enough closing speed - the guy ran 3:50 indoors and hangs with Farah in practice, not to mention that 1:56 closer for his 10000m. He has speed.
Closing in 1:56 isn't speed. It's endurance. 1:56 isn't even that fast. It's a 58 and a 59.
reginald denny wrote:No, he has been a "shadow of his expected form" for you. He has been exactly what I expected him to be...You might want to occasionally pay attention to Canova rather than your calculator.
eh ???
you clearly haven't a clue
i watched his 10k on web, which from your silage you clearly didn't
to run 26'44 of unambitious 13'25-split & finish with a 1'57 indicated ~ 26'35 if flat-out from gun
that's exactly what sal said after
what woud you expect a 26'35 guy to run for 5k ???
ventolin^3 wrote:
reginald denny wrote:No, he has been a "shadow of his expected form" for you. He has been exactly what I expected him to be...You might want to occasionally pay attention to Canova rather than your calculator.eh ???
you clearly haven't a clue
i watched his 10k on web, which from your silage you clearly didn't
to run 26'44 of unambitious 13'25-split & finish with a 1'57 indicated ~ 26'35 if flat-out from gun
that's exactly what sal said after
what woud you expect a 26'35 guy to run for 5k ???
Rupp got the benefit of drafting MUCH more than Bekele or Geb did when they set their 10,000m records. Essentially, Rupp was paced to his 26:44, so the fact that he had a nice final 800m or that he split 13:25 and 13:19 doesn't mean he can run 26:35. Rupp was PACED to a 26:44 and that appears to be his limit. The race unfolded almost PERFECTLY for Rupp, which is why his 13 flat 5000m efforts are so difficult for you to comprehend.
no
you seem to forget how unambitious 13'25 split is
it severely limits a guy to ~ 26'50 unless you are kennster/geb/tergat
even kennster in brussells '11 off a ~ 13'25 coud only go 26'43, barely quicker than rupp
all this backed up by 2nd/3rd guys at 26'49/26'52
for rupp to take out 5 & 8s out of these guys in last 800 shows he had very little fatigue to 9200m
get a clue, rupp was hugely better than 26'44
however, no promoter asks for 13'15/13'20 split nowdays, which is what a guy like rupp needs to fully explore his limits at 10k
drafting is a red-herring
rupp is much bigger than sambuu & gets little drafting from a 5'6 runt in terms of surface area blockage
sambuu actually did him no favour with pacing, offering him nothing better than
~ 26'56
pace to 9200m
sambuu just slowed the pace from 5k - 9200
rupp wouda probably been better off taking off at 5k rather than follow the runt to 9200m
Peta called wrote:
Rupperonis wrote:I don't think it's a matter of not having enough closing speed - the guy ran 3:50 indoors and hangs with Farah in practice, not to mention that 1:56 closer for his 10000m. He has speed.
Closing in 1:56 isn't speed. It's endurance. 1:56 isn't even that fast. It's a 58 and a 59.
Sure .. but we know he can run a lot faster than 58 and 59 … (lack of) speed isn't his issue in the 5000m, those guys aren't closing in 47. I think, like Ruperonis said, he just fails to run solid tactics in his 5000m races. Why, I have no idea.
ventolin^3 wrote:
no
you seem to forget how unambitious 13'25 split is
it severely limits a guy to ~ 26'50 unless you are kennster/geb/tergat
even kennster in brussells '11 off a ~ 13'25 coud only go 26'43, barely quicker than rupp
all this backed up by 2nd/3rd guys at 26'49/26'52
for rupp to take out 5 & 8s out of these guys in last 800 shows he had very little fatigue to 9200m
get a clue, rupp was hugely better than 26'44
however, no promoter asks for 13'15/13'20 split nowdays, which is what a guy like rupp needs to fully explore his limits at 10k
drafting is a red-herring
rupp is much bigger than sambuu & gets little drafting from a 5'6 runt in terms of surface area blockage
sambuu actually did him no favour with pacing, offering him nothing better than
~ 26'56
pace to 9200m
sambuu just slowed the pace from 5k - 9200
rupp wouda probably been better off taking off at 5k rather than follow the runt to 9200m
Drafting is a red herring? Oh please, this coming from the man who claims it is worth one second per lap. Bekele was no longer in dominant form in 2011, so please don't use that Brussels race as an indicator of anything. The reason that race went out in 13:25 is because Bekele did not know if he could handle anything faster, and he really had his hands full just winning. Rupp got great benefit from following Sambu, and for you to deny this manifests a tremendous amount of intellectual dishonesty, a trait which is quite unbecoming...