Letsrun. Help me break 2.12 for a marathon.

You need more work at 90-95% of MP to build better fuel utilization. What's your background, PRs?

I am ex-collegiate 5-10k guy. 5k: 13.46 10k: 28.31 HM: 1.03.34. This will be my fourth marathon but it will be the first one I am taking seriously. My Marathon best is 2.19.36 off of HM training.

Ditch the 25 mile long run. Unless you can explain why you need it.

It's something I have seen alot of true elites doing at training camps and I feel it would be a great simulator for my metabolism. I am a self-coached athlete for the first time so I am a little overwhelmed about my training especially as I have never had a marathon plan from my old coach to have any reference points in training.

Your training also needs more modulation and is too basic and clean cut. If you can run 2:12 off that, you'll run 2:10 with a coach.

A 63 half guy with your 5k PR doesn't show a lot of strength towards the marathon, especially if you've already run several. Shoot for that 2:15 "A" standard instead. Why the love affair with 2:12?

It's getting late to be building up your mileage so much, and anyways you don't need that right now. Read what Benji Durden (2:09:57) did on 90-100 mpw here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=535788

I was gonna say his potential seems to be more like 2:13-14, but 28:31 is a strong 10k time, better than the 5k. And I agree the "A" standard seems like a more sensible goal for this fall.

2.12 would pretty much guarantee me a place in next years WC for my country and I think I really want to take a shot at qualifying. It would put me in a whole new category of funding which is something I badly need to continue my career.Could you elaborate on the modulation I need to be doing?

Marathoner Dude wrote:

Your training also needs more modulation and is too basic and clean cut. If you can run 2:12 off that, you'll run 2:10 with a coach.

A 63 half guy with your 5k PR doesn't show a lot of strength towards the marathon, especially if you've already run several. Shoot for that 2:15 "A" standard instead. Why the love affair with 2:12?

[quote]MikeUnga wrote:

Ditch the 25 mile long run. Unless you can explain why you need it.

[quote]

I don't see where he is doing a 25-mile long run ... uhh ... anywhere.

Shooting for 2:12 is fine. I could name 20 guys who ran in the area of 2:10-2:12 for a legit course or a Boston and ran "just" 28:30 or slower for 10k on the track.

Randy Thomas

Dick Beardsley

Ben Durden

Bob Hodge

Pete Pfitzinger

...

See?

BUMP for more advice

newname wrote:

Shooting for 2:12 is fine. I could name 20 guys who ran in the area of 2:10-2:12 for a legit course or a Boston and ran "just" 28:30 or slower for 10k on the track.

Randy Thomas

Dick Beardsley

Ben Durden

Bob Hodge

Pete Pfitzinger

...

See?

But even though they had slower 10ks, how did their marathon and half marathon PR's stack up to the OP? If someone is slower over the HM distance but much faster over 10k, what does that say about their marathon potential?

Also, I see very little MP running in there, which is the key to a good marathon. Your 2:19 PR shows you burn carbs at too fast of a rate. You need more miles and more specificity.

3/10.

90s Slower 10k, Faster 26.2 PR wrote:

newname wrote:

Shooting for 2:12 is fine. I could name 20 guys who ran in the area of 2:10-2:12 for a legit course or a Boston and ran "just" 28:30 or slower for 10k on the track.

Randy Thomas

Dick Beardsley

Ben Durden

Bob Hodge

Pete Pfitzinger

...

See?

But even though they had slower 10ks, how did their marathon and half marathon PR's stack up to the OP? If someone is slower over the HM distance but much faster over 10k, what does that say about their marathon potential?

Also, I see very little MP running in there, which is the key to a good marathon. Your 2:19 PR shows you burn carbs at too fast of a rate. You need more miles and more specificity.

In every 3 week build up phase, I have 2 weeks where I have a MP workout which will be built up to 13m before the Marathon. On the other week, I will be finishing my long run at MP using the 3/1 system, e.g 24m long run with last 6 @ MP. Should I be adding MP work to a midweek med long or would this be over doing it?

My 2.19 was run without any specific Marathon training as I needed the money and I just jumped in and raced.

I've always been a fan of Frank Shorter's training- he tried to do something anaerobic a couple times a week-"typically my Tues afternoon speedwork will consist of 3/4 mile repeats (3:12, 3:09, 3:08, 3:06)with a 400m jog recovery. Thurs I might run 12 x 400 in 62 with a 200m jog" from his book Olympic Gold. He also says his long runs were always 20 miles, run progressive so the second half was around 5 min pace. Other than that I'd keep everything the same and race once a month 5K to 20K. Keep us posted!

naia champ wrote:

I've always been a fan of Frank Shorter's training- he tried to do something anaerobic a couple times a week-"typically my Tues afternoon speedwork will consist of 3/4 mile repeats (3:12, 3:09, 3:08, 3:06)with a 400m jog recovery. Thurs I might run 12 x 400 in 62 with a 200m jog" from his book Olympic Gold. He also says his long runs were always 20 miles, run progressive so the second half was around 5 min pace. Other than that I'd keep everything the same and race once a month 5K to 20K. Keep us posted!

So, I should I do a workout rotation on Tuesday and Thursday? Like 5x1200/800'/400's on Tuesday and have a tempo/hill sprints on Thursday and rotate between them every week. I would really like to keep a tempo in my schedule because it's my favourite workout. Would it be better to have my tempo peak closer to 10k pace at 4.43? I would only be hitting this peak for 1-1.5 miles during the workout.

I plugged your 10k time into mcmillanrunning.com. It predicts 13:44 5k, 63:34, and 2:13:48. Since your other times are so spot on I think you can expect right around 2:14

Swag Lord wrote:

I plugged your 10k time into mcmillanrunning.com. It predicts 13:44 5k, 63:34, and 2:13:48. Since your other times are so spot on I think you can expect right around 2:14

Jack Daniels has him at 13:41 5k, 62:45, 2:11.23 based on his 10k time. His 10k is his strongest PR.

I would include at least a couple 16-18 mile runs at like 90-95% MP.