What can be done to STOP BANDITS?

Cooter, M.D. wrote:

Settle down, Beavis!

hee hee hee ... Are you threatening me?!??! ... hee hee hee

kent wrote:

People don't get run over by drunk drivers if you bandit a race. The drunk driving analogy doesn't apply, you just proved it yourself.

Sure it does, it's just a matter of degree. Theye're both wrong, and both drunk driver and bandit have a negative impact on their surroundings. The difference is that DUI may have no consequences or very tragic ones. Banditing always has a consequence, it just isn't nearly as bad as somebody being killed.

You have not yet acknowledged the fact that you're an asshole. Failing that, how about confirming that you're Kent Wells of Houston?

In the camping scenario I gave you, is drunk driving wrong? What was the harmful effect when I bandited the race I described ?? I'm stil waiting for you to answer those questions.How's your life going to change if I say "No, that's not me." ?? If I say "Yes." ?? Who are you ??

possible wrote:

Sure it does, it's just a matter of degree. Theye're both wrong, and both drunk driver and bandit have a negative impact on their surroundings. The difference is that DUI may have no consequences or very tragic ones. Banditing always has a consequence, it just isn't nearly as bad as somebody being killed.

You have not yet acknowledged the fact that you're an asshole. Failing that, how about confirming that you're Kent Wells of Houston?

You should be defending banditing, not drunk driving to save a life. But then, defending banditing is a losing situation, as you've found by your trying to change the subject to anything else.

I'm outta here until Friday.

Everyone looks like everyone else? I for one would quit racing if it came to that.

who keeps changing the subject ??? see ya !!

I time about 60 races each year per year and can say that bandits frequently cause problems and/or extra work for both me and my crew and for the race volunteers. Many bandits are samrt enough or thoughtful enough to not cross the finish line, but each one that does cross the line can screw up the results if they then jump the chute. This can easily cause a 10 minute delay while we audit the initial results to find and remove the bandit's time.

Using chips can solve this, but 95% of the races I time are less than 250 runners and using the chip is not an option. We charge $500 per race for up to 500 runners, but to use the chip would be $1250 plus $1.00 per entry, thus a 500 runner race is $500 without chips and $1750 with the chips.

My personal solution has been to bring a digital camera with me to most races. I have my son take pictures of any bandits that cross the finish line. I have a portfolio of about 40 that have bandited more than 1 of the races I've timed. Three times (so far) I have caught these multiple-race bandits running races legitimately - 2 of whom would have won awards - if they appeared in the race results.

Both complained and I pointed to their race apps where in very tiny print at the bottom it states "I certify that I have never run in a XXX timed race without paying the appropriate entry fee." In both cases the race directors gave the runners their entry fee back and 'suggested' they never come back.

I don't do this for all the races I time, because a small percentage (15% maybe) don't agree to put my extra line on their race apps waiver form. I also lost 2 races from directors who didn't agree with me and went with another timing service, but it doesn't cost me anything because there are so many races within an hour of here that I can always replace the lost race.

Call me a hard ass, but banditing a race is theft of services pure and simple.

Great idea!

Michael Bautista wrote:

Before the race make an announcement to all the racers that they should look around and see if anybody there doesn't have a bib number and if they do make them step behind them because they didn't pay. The bandit will be embarressed by this and have less chance of further stuf

I'd first off like to congradulate Race Timer on a job well done.

But onto a better subject of kent...first off if u are the kent from houston...you are older then me so i wont say you suck but you said you won a race by a lot???!?!?!?!?

I am confused by your camping analogy...first off were u legally fishing? second it is illegal to drink on a lot of campgrounds...Now you said the help couldnt get there in time to save ur buddy and that you could get him to help faster...if you are drunk from ur 4-5beers and driving through the woods late at night chances are you wont make it faster to help cause u'll crash. So how is it that you can get him to a hospital before help can get to you?

But even still drunk driving in that situation would be wrong yes, but i guess if somehow u were able to make it to the hospital alive...it would be one of those necessary evils...u know like if i were really poor and starving i could just steal and rob to save my own life right?

where do you get your numbers on chip races ?? i am GROSSLY underpaid if that's the case.

woo hoo !!! welcome back dude !! I'm not suprised at all that you're confused. But you're probably used to it by now. You're not able to keep up with the rest of the class, so just ignore everything I've said before and just read this ... "Later, my man !!'".

mile fan wrote:

I am confused by your camping analogy...

kent wrote:

where do you get your numbers on chip races ?? i am GROSSLY underpaid if that's the case.

Pretty standard fee for chip timing (assuming ChampionChip). Not sure where he's from but both the place in this region that do it charge that fee, and other regions I've look are that and/or higher. A couple clubs charged less, but they weren't trying to make a living timing.

With the cost of the equipment it'll take a while to amortize it even at that price, depending on the number of races per year. I haven't looked at the two new systems out there for costs yet, but ChampionChip was about $25,000 for a decent starter system with adequate back last time I looked.

Wow. We'd be $500+ cheaper on a race of 500 people, and just about the same on a race of 1000-1200. On bigger races, we'd be more expensive, but we only do a few races over 1000.

And I certainly don't do it for a living.

kent wrote:

Wow. We'd be $500+ cheaper on a race of 500 people, and just about the same on a race of 1000-1200. On bigger races, we'd be more expensive, but we only do a few races over 1000.

And I certainly don't do it for a living.

Our club doesn't do chip timing and we're $500 for a small race (<400) $650 for over that, $150 for each extra event the same day. Out of that we pay the FL Director $100, the results person $50 (per race), the van rental $50-60. We bring about 12 volunteers to help out. Considering it costs us about $100 bucks a month just to store the stuff we only make a couple hundred each race. WE fund equipment from what we make on our own races (4 per year).

I can get full results out as fast (or nearly as fast) as a chip system for the race sizes I deal with (mostly less than 500). Our big club race we had everything printed a few minutes after the final finisher for both races (10K and 30K). It's tougher for a 5K with a lot of race day, but normally I can do 15 minutes after the final finisher for full results.

All that is dependant on registration going well. We lose a pack of entry forms we rebuild the data from the stringers, so unlike a chip race we have a viable backup, but it takes time.

Obviously, I'm not doing it for a living either.

kent wrote:

Cooter, M.D. wrote:

Settle down, Beavis!

hee hee hee ... Are you threatening me?!??! ... hee hee hee

Dill hole. Fart knocker.

Yo Cooter, check your email. You're about to become the most famous pussy poker in the area.

kent wrote:

You're hunting/fishing/camping with a few of your buddies, and you're done for the day, so you all kick back and have a few beers. Everyone else is hammered, and you've only had 4-5, when one of your buddies slips, hits his head on a boulder, and is now knocked out, bleeding profusely. You're in the middle of nowhere, and unless he gets to a hospital he may die. He'll be dead before help can come get him. Do you illegally drive him to safety, or do you let him bleed to death ??

Are you out of your mind?

I understand sarcasm. And since I responded back wtih sarcasm, it's obvious that you're the one who doesn't understand sarcasm.

I agree that these are two convenient examples for my argument. And you make a good point with your second statement.

Again, I feel your pain. I know that plenty of race directors get pennies on the dollar if they were being paid by the hour for what they do for a race. And the more I think about it, no race day registration would only encourage bandits; better to give the people a choice to pay or not pay.

Makes me wonder if listening to the bitching is offset by the money saved on unused shirts.

[qoute]#3. Next to t-shirts optional that's the second dumbest idea I've heard. That's an open invitation to a lawsuit, just like saying "people with baby-joggers move to the back" when you've said they're not allowed. Next thing you know you'll have some moron (like yourself, since you're already talking about lawsuits) saying we said it was OK to be there if you move to the back.[/quote]

If these are the two dumbest ideas you have ever heard, then you don't get out much, do you? How about these ideas:

runners pushing baby joggers in a foot race

dog owners running with their dogs

races that have a course that crosses active railroad tracks

5 year-olds lined up at the front

Gertrude, with her walking shoes and Walkman up at the front

Multi loop courses where the walkers walk abreast and block the course

All the above mentioned, have happened and are still happening. They are rude and detrimental to the others racing. But hey, since they paid....

#3. Next to t-shirts optional that's the second dumbest idea I've heard. That's an open invitation to a lawsuit, just like saying "people with baby-joggers move to the back" when you've said they're not allowed. Next thing you know you'll have some moron (like yourself, since you're already talking about lawsuits) saying we said it was OK to be there if you move to the back.

And why does mentioning a lawsuit in my sarcastic reply equate to being a moron?