What can be done to STOP BANDITS?

You can't. I have tried for decades. It ain't gonna happen. We had arguments about this in my club when I was president of it; it is another reason why I will never taken on another Volunteer Leadership Position again in this lifetime.

If we cannot get people to agree to a pissy little thing like this, how do we expect peace in the middle east, or anywhere else?

People can s*ck sometimes in a big way.

ok, that's one race, sponsored by a huge company that can afford to spend $$ on shirts some kid in bangkok makes for twelve cents. most races, esp local races, cannot afford this for a few reasons. firstly, what about those annoying charity runners we all hate? making them not wear their charity shirt would drive people bezerk. what about day-of-race entries? if you run out of shirts, you're screwed. i know i wouldn't want to wear a tee shirt on a blazing hot day. and, man, most of those shirts look pretty retarded. i think alot of people wouldn't like the idea of someone telling them what they have to wear when they race.

do you have any idea how to put on a race? let me tell you, i've helped set up a few races through my running store. i also make tee shirts. this idea has no merit. just live with the bandits. if you have so many bandits that your race is losing money, then you're doing something wrong. change your race date, pick up another few sponsors, charge less, buy cheaper food... in short, set up your race better.

Is smacking you in the knee caps really assault?

dyh wrote:

further, is banditing really stealing?

I like races that have dual fee structures. (i.e. If you want the t-shirt, you pay $25. If you want to race, but don't want the t-shirt, you pay $10.)

I have plenty of t-shirts, and will gladly pay a lower entry fee and forego the merchandise.

Maybe fewer people would bandit if more races offered this option.

Nothing can be done to stop bandits. They will always show up. They really aren't hurting anyone, however. I find that most bandits are above average runners, thus they really don't impede the other runners in front of them. I've been to races where the RD cordones off the refreshment and goodie bag areas, and only those with numbers are allowed to partake.

There are a few reasons behind banditing. One is the outrageous price RDs are charging. Many races don't give a "No T-Shirt" option. If you've been running as long as most of us on letsrun.com, do we really need another race t-shirt with retarded graphics? C'mon, give us a choice!

Why are there late registration fees? If I show up on race morning, I don't think the RD is going to shoot off to the local market and pick up more oranges and have my size T-shirt prepared. If I decide Friday night that I want to run your race on Saturday morning, don't rape me by taking extra money and giving me less; I'll keep my money and race for free. I won't cross your finish line and I'll bring my own Gatorade.

As the cost of races keep rising, runners are more selective about which races they are going to commit to. There are many runners who have been burned by inaccurate courses, been led off course by the lead vehicle, had inadequate water stations, or any other problem that we all face at a race. Some might bandit a race just to see if it's worth going to (and paying) the next year.

I know it's hard for RDs, and it's been quite a while since I bandited a race. I dodge the big races and go for the locals that are sponsored by high schools, churches or local charities. I give them their $20 and I don't expect much in return except for an accurate course and an accurate time.

Holland Nass wrote:

Why are there late registration fees? If I show up on race morning, I don't think the RD is going to shoot off to the local market and pick up more oranges and have my size T-shirt prepared. If I decide Friday night that I want to run your race on Saturday morning, don't rape me by taking extra money and giving me less; I'll keep my money and race for free. I won't cross your finish line and I'll bring my own Gatorade.

There are late entry fees because runners expect there to be shirts, water, supplies, portajons, etc, for everyone that shows up. If you don't have a late fee then everyone registers at the last minute and you have no idea how to manage the race.

If you show up race morning and bandit just because you're too lazy to plan (and then complain because there's not enough supplies) then don't bitch about people thinking you're a scumbag.

Everyone can deep-6 the world's stupidist idea too. There are about 100 people in the country that don't give a shit about t-shirts at road races. I tried "t-shirts optional" a couple times and all it got me was about 10 people opted for it (out of 500) and two of them decided they liked the shirt after all and wanted one. What was the #1 question for out big race last year (where we ran out of shirts BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE REGISTER RACEDAY)? "Are you going to have enough shirts for everyone this year?" Aynone that thinks "t-shirts optional" is a good money saving idea is totally out of touch. It ends up costing the RD for the shirts anyway.

dyh wrote:

snowbear, that singlet idea is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you obviously have never bought tees for a race, or had anything printed on them. do you know how much $$ that would cost?....

YOU are the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard.

How many races buy t-shirts, have graphics (ie: sponsorships) printed on them, and include the cost in the entry fee?

JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE RACE ALREADY DOES IT.

They are ALREADY paying for the t-shirts.

They are ALREADY paying for the graphics.

The cost is ALREADY in the entry fee.

Buying singlets instead of t-shirts isn't that big of a deal.

Printing a different bib number on each singlet is not that big of a deal.

The biggest problem might be sizing. Races that fill out a month in advance shouldn't have a problem since they will know their quantity and sizing requirements. Races that allow same day registration would have to order extra of the larger sizes (you can run in a singlet too large, but not too small).

Any major race that wanted to eliminate their bandit problem could do it with about the same effort they are already putting forth.

Running a race as a bandit is not a terrible things assuming that as a bandit you do not interfere in any way with the registered runners' races. This means that you should:

1. Not take a shirt or race packet.

2. Not use aid stations or try to get help from any of the medical personnel.

3. Not run through the finish line.

4. Not eat food or use any of the amenities meant for registered racers.

I have run several races as a bandit, and unlike the morons who do it because it makes them feel rebellious, I only run bandit if the race organizers are charging exorbitant prices for entry or are building a bunch of extra crap into the entry fee. I don't need coupons or massages to run a 5k, and I will not pay $30 to run one no matter how many doorprizes there are. Racing has become too frilly, but if people do run bandit, they still shouldn't chug all the gatorade that is meant for those who paid to run.

-R

printing a different # isn't a big deal? ok, sure. any idea how you print on tees? you probably think it's like printing a page from your computer printer. here's a hint. you put an image on a screen, push ink through it, and dry the ink. each color and location requires a seperate screen. making a screen costs about $20. setting a screen up takes about 10-15 minutes, depending on the press and skill of the printer. if you have 100 runners, that means you'll need to spend over $2000 on screens alone, cause you need a different screen for each number. you still haven't paid for the other images you want on the shirt or even the cost of the shirts themselves. so, assuming those same 100 runners you made these shirts for, that's an entry fee price hike of over $45 each just to cover the shirts.

not to mention that not too many printers i know would want a job that required more than about 8 screens.

like i said, dumbest idea i ever heard. just pin the freaking number. give up on this, kid.

by the way, you know those baseball/football/etc jerseys you might have gotten in little league with your # on the back? that's probably a heat transfer. they take about as much time to make, since you need to cut the number out of the vinyl, weed it, position the shirt, wait 15 seconds for it to press, remove the backing, press it AGAIN so it doesn't come off the first time you wash it, then set it aside, cause it can't be folded until it's cold (unlike silk screening). plus, putting an ink-based image on a tee then heat pressing a number is a bitch to do. i'd wind up charging more for that. and please try harder to come up with better insults.

also, i forgot about artwork charges. each # will require new artwork, and so will accrue an additional charge per number. so now the race organizers are paying for not 1-3 artwork and screen charges, but a seperate art/screen charge for each shirt. yeah, you were right about one thing though. singlets are just as easy to get as tees.

this is an annoying thread. can we change the topic to the yankees?

Keith Stone wrote:

If you show up race morning and bandit just because you're too lazy to plan (and then complain because there's not enough supplies) then don't bitch about people thinking you're a scumbag.

I could careless if people think I'm a scumbag. I usually finish and am on my cool down they finsih anyway.

What you claim is the world's stupidest idea (t-shirt optional) is probably the BIGGEST cause of bandits. Why pay $20-$30 for entry into a race for a t-shirt you don't want or need?

Face facts Mr. Stone: bandit runners are above average runners who have been to plenty of races. The 500 joggers that wanted shirts were apeased. The rest of us have no option than to bandit or get another crappy t-shirt. At your last race, how many elites entered? How many bandits were in the front of the pack?

Most joggers have no idea about banditing. It's the guy/girl who have been to so many races, been burned so many times, and really have no choice when RD Stone comes to town and makes 'em buy a shirt.

When race day comes, if you ask me to pay full price (or more), then you damn well better have a t-shirt for me. If you're out of shirts, then cut me a break.

I work on the weekends. When I come to your race and I win my age division, or overall, I have to wait hours for you to give me a stinking trophy or medal. Sorry pal, I have to go to work. I don't have time for Gertrude to come strolling in from her 10K walk before the awards start. I don't know how many races that I've been to, paid my entry fee, and when I had to leave before the awards ceremony, the RD never sent me my award. Don't get me started on the raffle prizes between age group winners.

I've paid my way into your race; don't make me stand there while you kiss your sponsors ass until 8:10a when the race was supposed to start at 8:00a. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but when the mayor's daughter starts to belt the Star Spangled Banner off-key, further delayng the race, I get a little peeved.

Keith, I typically don't bandit races. I have the money, and I support the cause. But I don't want another shirt. I don't want to stand in lines because your volunteers have no idea how to check runners in. I don't want to be led off course, run long or short, or have to wait an hour for the results. If you've been to enough races, you can see those situations coming a mile away.

I realize that a lot of a RD's problems come from late registrants, but either be prepared for us, expect us to bandit, or figure out a way to keep us out. Or just put on a good race and give us a t-shirt option.

I've never bandited, but I would consider it.

Say I wanted to race 4 weekends in a row. That would cost me like $100 for the month. That's absurd.

it's easy to take care of bandits

just get a posse together

start charging them with fraud

There is no best way to stop bandits. After reading here and w/evidence from many races, I have to concede the ill-advised practice of running w/out paying isn't going away. There'll always be bandits just like there'll always be folks that run w/traffic at their back & women that run w/headphones on.

They can be told over and over why it's not a good idea, but too many miss the message, figure it doesn't apply to them or can't comprehend the downside of their actions because they can't or don't appreciate what's involved in staging a race. Ignorance is bliss but no excuse. Education will set you fr...straight.

I like the idea of all runners at the start looking around for others w/out numbers and asking them to leave but I fear ugly scenes or, worse, ambivalence.

Holland Nass wrote:

I realize that a lot of a RD's problems come from late registrants, but either be prepared for us, expect us to bandit, or figure out a way to keep us out. Or just put on a good race and give us a t-shirt option.

It's interesting that most of the stuff you're bitching about is caused by inconsiderate dolts who show up on race day (many at the last minute) and expect everyone to kiss their ass. You are correct they are above average runners so they should know better, they are NOT elite by any stretch of the imagination (except maybe theirs). The elite and sub-elite runners I know and have had in races are generally there early, are considerate, and are pleased we're doing the best we can to put on a well managed race for them. They cool down, sometimes shower, then come back for the awards at their advertised time. Yes, it's after Gertrude finishes.

Now why should I offer a race day "discount" for someone who may or may not want a shirt I'VE ALREADY PAID FOR? What have you been smoking? How do you think that's going to lower fees? How is offering incentive to people that don't plan make MY race planning more effective? How am I supposed to plan for something that's unknown and give everyone the same experience.

Now I agree that many RDs (and I confess most of then are charity related) over promise and under deliver. The solution to that is not to bandit, but to volunteer to help them out. You don't like the terms the RD sets out, don't show up. Just because you, like the children of Lake Wobegon, are considered above average doesn't mean you deserve some special treatment. EVERYONE that shows up should get a top notch race, on a accurately measured and safe course, with starts and results at their scheduled time. Every race should have predefined cutoff times for results and a clear description of what someone should expect ( facilities, course, post race, etc ). If that doesn't please you, don't come, and the RD will get the message.

Beat them to within an inch of their lives. Well, none of you runners could do that, but you could pay someone to do it.

This is an interesting thread filled with some stupid opinions.

One good thing I read was that people should have the option of buying the shirt and not have it already included and I know at some races they do do this already.

As for the poor college kids, you can sack up and try to join ur college xc or track team and compete...thats free... you could also try to join a local club that is willing to pay for ur entry fees assuming ur worth it or even there are a number of free local weekly races throughout the country.

My idea for stopping bandits is simple...its just like at a baseball stadium...if someone is on the field that doesnt belong they get the shit tackled out of them. Over the course of a marathon there are over 5 officials per mile (including cops, race officials, water people and all the toehrs) if bandits are that big of a deal for the event well they should just get tackled that simple! I am will to do this for a fee if anyone is interested...I'll stand at certain points of a 5k or 8k and if i see someone without a number, they are getting a ray lewis tackled to the pavement

please contact me

mile fan wrote:

This is an interesting thread filled with some stupid opinions.

My idea for stopping bandits is simple...its just like at a baseball stadium...if someone is on the field that doesnt belong they get the shit tackled out of them. Over the course of a marathon there are over 5 officials per mile (including cops, race officials, water people and all the toehrs) if bandits are that big of a deal for the event well they should just get tackled that simple! I am will to do this for a fee if anyone is interested...I'll stand at certain points of a 5k or 8k and if i see someone without a number, they are getting a ray lewis tackled to the pavement

Too funny. Thank you very little, mile fan, for adding to the stupidness!