Wow, sounds like a personal problem to me
Got news for you, nobody has ever been undefeated in the history of the sport. Everyone loses or has a race that is subpar at some point in their career. Even his dad lost now and then (usually to that other underachiever Jim Ryun
) so get over it dude!
Not a personal problem...just stating a fact. He has run some very good 800m and 1600m times but he hasn't yet proven that he has stregth as the term is defined in our sport of distance running. To argue the contrary is simply silly.Bair has not proven himself in cross country. A 4:09 miler who can't finish in the top 10 at a weak hs state xc field...well, to me that says he has no strength.Simple as that.
DIII Coach wrote:
Wow, sounds like a personal problem to me
Got news for you, nobody has ever been undefeated in the history of the sport. Everyone loses or has a race that is subpar at some point in their career. Even his dad lost now and then (usually to that other underachiever Jim Ryun
) so get over it dude!
Well, I would agree that Sam's track times and cc times just don't match up yet, but that's not all that uncommon. I would say that a 4:09 as a junior is not run off of speed alone-you have to have some aerobic power in there somewhere. And as someone already pointed out, he did win the WPIAL meet the week before.
I wish him well as I have always been a big fan of his dad. I once asked his dad what his secret was to improving so much so rapidly in college and his quote to me was "I had my shit together from the minute I arrived in Kent."
Not too many college coaches worth a crap are too concerned about cc times when you have thrown down a 4:09 and a 1:50 during you JUNIOR year. I'd rather see it that way than the other way around because it's easier to acquire strength that it is to acquire true speed.
I would agree that speed is better than strength but let there be no doubt that he has done an ample amount of "strength" work to no avail. Winning western PA's championships is no big deal for someone who is suppose to be national caliber (or even state caliber).
I guess it all boils down to what you are preparing for. Some people can peak twice (or so they think) per year and some people use all the other training and racing they do in a year to get ready for what really matters and for a high schooler that might just be the outdoor track season. Big freakin deal if his cc times aren't that of a Solinsky or Wes Smith, he can run with pretty much whoever he wants to outdoors and that is what counts the most. Cut the boy some slack in cc, it just isn't as important as you think it is.....
Hey, I'm merely responding to the guys who have gotten down on their knees to tell the world that this kid has tons of strength because he has run a 4:09 mile. My answer is No He Doesn't. Strength is one thing and speed is another. Clearly, he is all speed (nothing wrong with being all speed). If I am wrong and Bair has the strength, then he IS a choke artist in the distance events (not counting the 1600 as a distance event).
DIII Coach wrote:
I guess it all boils down to what you are preparing for. Some people can peak twice (or so they think) per year and some people use all the other training and racing they do in a year to get ready for what really matters and for a high schooler that might just be the outdoor track season. Big freakin deal if his cc times aren't that of a Solinsky or Wes Smith, he can run with pretty much whoever he wants to outdoors and that is what counts the most. Cut the boy some slack in cc, it just isn't as important as you think it is.....
... "Got news for you, nobody has ever been undefeated in the history of the sport. Everyone loses or has a race that is subpar at some point in their career."
Herb Elliot, fairly common knowledge
and Sam lost his share of races (and not just to Ryun) BUT was almost always 'right there'. In addition (and my extra .02 cents) - Sam (Kent State and after) Bair had perhaps the fastest (and amazing) last 40 to 60 yards in the races (mostly 'miles' as I recall) I witnessed. I could never figure out why he waited. He was incredible to watch. Any race he was in I watched for his wicked kick to be unleashed. Unbelievable.
But DIII Coach, Herb was the only undefeated. Probably doesn't really add much to the discussion tho.
sorry to shatter the myth, but Herb Elliot was only underfeated as a senior runner....he did lose races as a junior
you don\'t run 4:09 on all speed, to claim otherwise is just a blatant show of ignorance of physiology and YES i do know that Sam Sr. lost to more people than Jim Ryun-I was making the point that you can choose to be negative-as most people are toward anyone who has done anything (and usually much more than they have ever or will ever do) or you can get off the jealousy thing (and that\'s what it is despite your claims that you are "keepin it real".
Bottom line: I'm positive that Sam will have his choice of colleges to attend and will continue to improve in all aspects of running-even cc.
Of course he'll improve in xc....16 something won't cut it in NCAAs.
DIII Coach wrote:
sorry to shatter the myth, but Herb Elliot was only underfeated as a senior runner....he did lose races as a junior
you don't run 4:09 on all speed, to claim otherwise is just a blatant show of ignorance of physiology and YES i do know that Sam Sr. lost to more people than Jim Ryun-I was making the point that you can choose to be negative-as most people are toward anyone who has done anything (and usually much more than they have ever or will ever do) or you can get off the jealousy thing (and that's what it is despite your claims that you are "keepin it real".
Bottom line: I'm positive that Sam will have his choice of colleges to attend and will continue to improve in all aspects of running-even cc.
Definitely a personal problem.
Personal Problem...really? Here are the facts from this year's WPIAL Championships.....
CLASS AAA BOYS
Oct. 24, 2002
TEAM
PLACE SCORE FINISHER TIME PACE TEAM
1 1 Sam Bair, Sr 16:10 5:13 Shaler Area
2 2 Ian Fitzgerald, Jr 16:12 5:13 North Hills
3 3 Thadeus Meyer, Sr 16:29 5:19 Bethel Park
4 4 Andy Tomaswick, Sr 16:36 5:21 Highlands
5 5 Jim O'Toole, Jr 16:39 5:22 Mt. Lebanon
6 6 Mike Booth, Jr 16:47 5:25 West Mifflin
7 7 E J. Robertson, Sr 16:50 5:26 North Allegheny
8 8 Brian Dodd, Sr 16:51 5:26 Montour
9 9 Ian Shreckengast, Jr 16:52 5:26 North Hills
10 10 Brent Rogus, Sr 16:54 5:27 Gateway
11 11 Chris Geddis, Sr 16:56 5:28 Seneca Valley
12 12 Matt Rudzki, Jr 16:58 5:28 Fox Chapel
13 13 Jeff Weiss, So 16:58 5:28 McGuffey
14 14 Josh Eddy, So 16:59 5:28 North Hills
15 15 Justin Shepherd, Sr 17:01 5:29 Seneca Valley
16 16 Andrew Kloes, Sr 17:02 5:30 Penn Hills
17 17 Matt Luchansky, Jr 17:05 5:30 Hampton
18 18 Matt Bluman, Sr 17:05 5:30 Penn Trafford
19 19 Brad Rogers, Sr 17:05 5:31 Mt. Lebanon
20 20 Pat Tatman, Sr 17:09 5:32 Peters Township
21 21 Andrew Davidson, Sr 17:11 5:33 Mt. Lebanon
22 22 Jeff Justus, Sr 17:13 5:33 Shaler Area
23 23 Eric Harbison, Sr 17:15 5:34 Greensburg Salem
24 24 John Balouris, Jr 17:16 5:34 Shaler Area
25 25 Chris Trumbull, Sr 17:16 5:34 Mt. Lebanon
26 26 Julian Fiorina, Jr 17:16 5:34 Franklin Regional
27 27 Ken King, So 17:17 5:34 Connellsville
28 28 Kevin Stewart, Sr 17:18 5:35 Gateway
29 29 Paul Specht, Sr 17:20 5:35 Hampton
30 30 Derek Heiss, Jr 17:20 5:35 Mt. Lebanon
31 31 Jesse Snider, Jr 17:23 5:36 North Allegheny
32 32 Andrew Rowland, Jr 17:25 5:37 Fox Chapel
33 33 Warren Ciabattoni, Sr 17:25 5:37 Hempfield
34 34 Tom Slosky, Jr 17:27 5:38 Highlands
35 35 Jake Karan, Jr 17:28 5:38 Highlands
36 36 Brett Pollack, Jr 17:30 5:38 North Allegheny
37 37 Kevin Forsythe, Jr 17:31 5:39 Hampton
38 38 Evan Ringle, Sr 17:32 5:39 Hampton
39 39 Pat Velliky, Jr 17:33 5:40 North Hills
40 40 Dave Reber, Sr 17:33 5:40 Hampton
41 41 Elijah Defassio, So 17:41 5:42 Greensburg Salem
42 42 Dave Neely, Sr 17:43 5:43 Shaler Area
43 Joe McFadden, Sr 17:43 5:43 Hopewell
44 43 Ryan Bunch, Jr 17:49 5:45 Mt. Lebanon
45 44 Ryan Edmiston, Jr 17:50 5:45 Butler
46 45 Mike Haley, So 17:51 5:45 North Hills
47 46 Eric Burnett, Sr 17:52 5:46 Fox Chapel
48 47 Kyle Leister, So 17:52 5:46 Fox Chapel
49 48 Doug Doyle, Sr 17:53 5:46 North Hills
50 49 Max Brown, Fr 17:53 5:46 North Allegheny
51 50 Brad Grimm, Sr 17:54 5:46 Penn Hills
52 51 Cam Christeson, Sr 17:54 5:46 Plum
53 52 Nick Croasdaile, Jr 17:54 5:46 Plum
54 53 Mack Brickley, Jr 17:55 5:47 Latrobe
55 54 Scott Whipkey, Sr 17:55 5:47 North Allegheny
56 55 James Rogerson, So 17:57 5:47 Butler
57 56 Ryan Kennedy, Jr 17:58 5:48 Central Catholic
58 57 Dan Kuzma, So 17:59 5:48 Central Catholic
59 58 Chris Throne, Sr 17:59 5:48 Butler
60 59 Greg Heddeaus, Sr 18:03 5:49 Upper St. Clair
61 60 Sean Pelusi, Sr 18:03 5:49 Butler
62 61 Will Wallander, So 18:04 5:49 Baldwin
63 62 Mark Morelli, Jr 18:04 5:50 Penn Hills
64 63 Jeremy Flinn, Sr 18:05 5:50 Hempfield
65 64 Jim Marshall, Sr 18:05 5:50 Upper St. Clair
66 65 Zach Vavro, Jr 18:06 5:50 Butler
67 66 Scott Seserko, Sr 18:06 5:50 Central Catholic
68 67 Adam Sencak, Fr 18:07 5:50 North Hills
69 68 Brad McGill, Sr 18:08 5:51 Seneca Valley
70 69 Dylan Holt, Sr 18:09 5:51 Penn Hills
71 70 Chris Deriggi, So 18:09 5:51 Plum
72 71 Josh Miller, Sr 18:10 5:51 Hempfield
73 72 Bill Pryslak, Jr 18:10 5:51 West Allegheny
74 73 Joe Wilcher, Jr 18:11 5:52 Penn Trafford
75 74 Jacob Hoone, Sr 18:12 5:52 Derry
76 75 Mark Bolha, Sr 18:13 5:52 Greensburg Salem
77 76 Michael Rinaman, Sr 18:13 5:52 Seneca Valley
78 77 Dan Schmitt, Jr 18:13 5:53 Peters Township
79 78 Nick Lieb, Jr 18:14 5:53 Franklin Regional
80 79 Ray Melder, So 18:14 5:53 Butler
81 80 Dave Doty, Sr 18:15 5:53 Moon Area
82 81 Dane Stavor, Jr 18:16 5:53 Pine-Richland
83 82 Zach Kocian, Sr 18:16 5:53 Hempfield
84 83 Dan Bisers, Sr 18:17 5:54 Hampton
85 84 Greg Skoutelas, Sr 18:17 5:54 Pine-Richland
86 85 Nick Ceraso, So 18:18 5:54 Keystone Oaks
87 86 Josh Hutchinson, Jr 18:18 5:54 Highlands
What are you, the cc police or something?
The horse has long since been dead and the dog never did hunt.
It's not as important as the times run or the state titles run in track. There is no such thing as a cross country scholarship.
But, that's just my opinion....
After your last comment (no such thing as a cross country scholarship), you have lost all credibility with me. For you, DIII Coach, have no idea what you're talking about. There are plenty of D1 programs that don't have a track program but do have an xc program; their kids get scholarships from the athletic dep't; what would you call that?
4:09 and 1:50 but no better than 16 means the kid lacks strength. You'll always be a DIII coach if you really disagree with my assertion.
And wrote:
Hey, I'm merely responding to the guys who have gotten down on their knees to tell the world that this kid has tons of strength because he has run a 4:09 mile. My answer is No He Doesn't. Strength is one thing and speed is another. Clearly, he is all speed (nothing wrong with being all speed). If I am wrong and Bair has the strength, then he IS a choke artist in the distance events (not counting the 1600 as a distance event).
[/quote]
I hope for sanity sake that this dipshit is a HS kid himself.
We're reduced to calling HS runners chokers because they don't meet some expectation that you have for them?
Does youth shield someone from the truth? Only an old man can be a choke artist? Your logic is not sound.
Maybe the kid is just more of a true middle distance guy. Great 800 runner with plenty of legspeed for a fast 400, but also the stamina to run the mile. He just might not be a xc runner. Nothing wrong with that.
Look at Seb Coe and Rich Kenah (just a couple of examples). Both great 800/mile runners. Neither known as distance runners.
This kid might just be at the point where he can handle a 3 mile xc race. Not enough of a distance runner where he is going to dominate (ex. Webb and Riley when in high school), but where it is worth his time doing it.
Odds are you aren't going to be seeing him leading the charge in a college 8k or 10k xc race. Any coach lands him is going to be thinking about the 800/mile and the distance relays at Penn.
I also think strength can be relative. Michael Johnson is a sprinter who many referred to as having strength since he had the ability to go from the 200 to the 400, unlike Mo Green who was down after 200. Sammy Kipketer has a lot of strength, but he would get his ass handed to him by KK come miles 24 and 25 of a marathon.
I was referring to the programs that do offer track because the cc only programs aren't germaine to the discussion. So,yes you are correct there are cc scholarships but it doesn't matter here because Sam is going to go wherever he wants to and that must really burn your butt.
I get a kick out of Sam running well because I have always had nothing but the utmost respect for his dad (and fellow Kent alum). They are both very classy individuals. Your points lack credibility because all of your comments reek of jealousy and resentment. Face it, Sam jr is one of the best hs runners in the US right now and it's great fun to have followed his career so far. Instead of props for 4:09 and 1:50 all you can do is jag him about cc. That takes a small person with little clue about running to consistently be so negative. Grow up little boy.
That's all I got to say about that......
He is one of the best milers in HS right now. You are correct. If another miler wants to beat him---the strategy to me would be to take him out hard...really hard and see whether he can hang on. My guess is no because he has no strength.
Why do I write this? Because someone above, perhaps you, proclaimed Bair to have great strength....the answer is a clear no. Take him out in 1:58-2:00, and the dude with strength will probably hang on to win (unless Bair is smart enough not to go with him).
DIII Coach wrote:
Dave Wottle wasn't much of a cc racer in hs either, but did become a serviceable one at BG. I predict he goes under 4:05 outdoors
I guess Wottle was a choker also. Never did well in the big races.