African Age Cheating

Shawn H wrote:

But But adolescents against runners in the prime years of a distance runner is "cheating," even if the rules allow it.

You are an idiot of epic proportions.

In the case of the tenuousness of birth records in some of the less developed parts of the world, what's the solution?

Brimin Kipruto never had a birth certificate until he applied for one in 2001.

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/sports/article/2000062634/not-letting-gold-out-of-the-vault/

What would you have the IAAF do, knowing that they won't just outright ban these particular East African countries from age group competition?

idiot alert wrote:

Shawn H wrote:

But But adolescents against runners in the prime years of a distance runner is "cheating," even if the rules allow it.

You are an idiot of epic proportions.

How so? Can you speak from experience on this thread besides just putting an extra "but" in my quote and calling me an idiot? This is a very simple topic, and I know very well what I'm talking about FROM EXPERIENCE. "trackcoach" is right on target with his thread, but on this forum there's always going to be know-it-alls who know nothing.

Diopters A plenty wrote:

Nobody gets hurt how? Physically? no, but the kids who ARE that age get deprived of a moment they might have cherished for the entire lives. I have experience here. When my son was 11, in the National championship baseball tournament they lost to a team from Florida that had the manliest 11 year old you've ever seen and it happened the next year with the 12 year olds. The 12 year old was an american kid from Cali and he WAS BUSTED. But they deprived the kids of a National Championship because he was 2 years older and pitched the championship game. The 11 year old was from the DR and this year when all the other kids are 14, he is magically on the DR NATIONAL 16 year old team, which cannot take younger players. Yeah, it matters.

EXACTLY. Now this guy posts something intelligent. Go ahead, lame brains, call HIM an idiot.

Diopters A plenty wrote:

Nobody gets hurt how? Physically? no, but the kids who ARE that age get deprived of a moment they might have cherished for the entire lives. I have experience here. When my son was 11, in the National championship baseball tournament they lost to a team from Florida that had the manliest 11 year old you've ever seen and it happened the next year with the 12 year olds. The 12 year old was an american kid from Cali and he WAS BUSTED. But they deprived the kids of a National Championship because he was 2 years older and pitched the championship game. The 11 year old was from the DR and this year when all the other kids are 14, he is magically on the DR NATIONAL 16 year old team, which cannot take younger players. Yeah, it matters.

That's hardly the same thing. And how was your son hurt? Bottom line, he wasn't.

PUOSU wrote:

Can you give us some examples of 25-year-olds illegally taking a spot from a teenager? Thanks in advance.

um, ever heard of LV and grampa ches?

1. Some schools allow 8th graders to compete on high school teams, thus the 13 year olds reference.

2. I, for one, consider most 18 and 19 year old males to be MEN. What is it about turning 20 that suddenly changes things?

3. I'm still competitive.

PUOSU wrote:

trackcoach wrote:

The age appropriate talented African high school and young athletes who never got a chance because because some 25 year old training in a pro group took their spot, not to mention all of the athletes from countries that do verify age and the integrity of junior records.

Can you give us some examples of 25-year-olds illegally taking a spot from a teenager? Thanks in advance.

Did you even read my post? What kind of examples do you want? You people constantly cry for evidence that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, or the Boston bombers weren't set up. Just open your eyes and stop believing everything the lamestream media tells you.

Yes, and I was also competitive. At 16 I could run with just about anyone at the State level even if I couldn't beat them. I finished 7th as a sophomore in the State mile, and if I had run one second faster I would've been 3rd. I was a younger boy running against older boys, not men. It was a great challenge, and I didn't mind because I knew that those guys would graduate, I'd move up a grade, then another and get my chance to be the big boy against the little boys. And if 18-19 year olds were truly men, there would be no argument here. But there's a real difference between 99 percent of 18-year-olds and the 26-27-year-old Henry Rono or Suleiman Nyambui in college. Not many 18-year-olds can be Jim Ryun.

Give it up, dude. It's perfectly legit to run in college at any age.

Earth to nimrod wrote:

Give it up, dude. It's perfectly legit to run in college at any age.

I'm not arguing against that. "Legit" and "fair" are often different things. As I said already, there's cheating, and then there's cheating. This is why you have so much public outcry against big corporations and individuals and all their tax loopholes. The loopholes are a legal way of "cheating" the system. And when loopholes like allowing 27-year-old Olympians to run against 17-18-year old college freshmen are closed, it's because EVERYONE knew it was an unfair loophole and a way of legal "cheating." Ever heard of "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the law"?

And yes, I'm giving up on this thread because I've made several perfectly logical posts, but some skulls are just too numb.

Yeah, age cheating among Africans is a real thing and it kind of sucks. The thing is, those guys are trying to make some kind of living and get out of shitty lives for themselves and their families. The Americans their supposedly "hurting" are missing out on, what? A different-color ribbon? A couple bucks that they usually don't even need or care about?

A little perspective on life seems in order here.

At OSU we had a 29 year old Kenyan, David Chirchir.

There was a girl from Africa on the woman's team from Kenyan and her brother graduated with him, and bearing that, she said he's even older than 29 at the time.

I'd like to say he was a nice guy, the the fella never said a word.

Age cheating does happen.

Not as true as you want it to be. Every city has a procedure for "correcting" birth certificates. Here is NYCs,

All you need is a "letter" to get the DOB changed.

5. How do I correct my child’s date of birth or sex?

If the child is 12 months of age or younger:

Bring the original certificate and a correction application (PDF) to the hospital where your child was born.

If the child is older than 1 year of age:

You must submit photocopies of current, signed photo identification and a check or money order for $55 ($40 processing fee plus $15 fee for new certificate) made payable to the NYC Department of Health & Mental Hygiene and

one of the following documents: Letter from the hospital where the child was born including the child’s correct name, date of birth, and parent’s name(s).

You mention that it is rare that the Africans' ages are correct (assuming they are higher than stated) but how do you consolidate this with your first paragraph when you state that "The East Africans are the best at the senior ranks..." It seems to me that the seniors have to have been once juniors (whether they competed then or not).

I am not doubting that age cheating happens but I am questioning the magnitude that you portend. I am having a hard believing that if you collected the top High school mid & long distance runners in the US they could prevail over the East African high school runners over the same distance.

What a garbage post. Not one name of any runner is mentioned, yet you whine about the cheating going on. Have some nuts and state some names.

And oddly enough it seems that Kenyans stop aging once they reach legit senior ranks. Based on your logic aren't most of them winning races then Master runners? How old would you say Eliud Kipchoge is? 60?

Get a life. Some may cheat about their ages, but the reality is there is NO NEED for a Kenyan to cheat at any age.

There is no real evidence to prove that east africans are cheating with their age. The FIFA has does x-rays of players in the pas at U18 Champs and exluded players from tournaments

The peak of the iceberg is European countries helping east africans to hide their age cheat to have them run in Championships for them as Spain (steepler from Marrocco) and Germany (Homiyu Tesfaye)

They don't have a system that accurately records their birthdates. It goes far beyond the sport of track as to why this is the case. This has been recognized as an issue for decades in the junior age groups.

Diopters A plenty wrote:

Nobody gets hurt how? Physically? no, but the kids who ARE that age get deprived of a moment they might have cherished for the entire lives. I have experience here. When my son was 11, in the National championship baseball tournament they lost to a team from Florida that had the manliest 11 year old you've ever seen and it happened the next year with the 12 year olds. The 12 year old was an american kid from Cali and he WAS BUSTED. But they deprived the kids of a National Championship because he was 2 years older and pitched the championship game. The 11 year old was from the DR and this year when all the other kids are 14, he is magically on the DR NATIONAL 16 year old team, which cannot take younger players. Yeah, it matters.

It sounds like you are teaching your kids that winning is the only thing that matters.

I see decades of therapy in their future. Good work, man.