RE: Cheating at Marathons

Yawn. She ran a 13 hr marathon recently. Yes. 13.

"ran"?

My god. Thats not even walking. Snailing?

Score another positive for the LRC community. Guinness is putting a stop to the madness!!!! I pasted the letter from guinness below, long but worth a read and includes this gem "There is a chance that most marathon records will have to be rested and started from scratch with a new set of rules and definitions. "

"Dear applicant

Following customers' feedback we have decided to temporarily close this record category and look into our requirements for this record in regards to what officially constitutes a marathon race and how the record can be properly verified. We appreciate how anxious you are to have your application reviewed, however, we must listen to our customers and take time to look into the current guidelines for our records related to the fastest time to run a marathon on each continent, most marathons completed in a year and most marathons run on consecutive days and decide if and how they can be monitored going forward. This process is due to start in two weeks and can take up to 4 months to complete. We will be working with internal and external partners to ensure that these records can stand a higher level of scrutiny. There is a chance that most marathon records will have to be rested and started from scratch with a new set of rules and definitions. We will inform you at the end of the review. Due to high volume of requests we are unable to respond to individual cases, but will reach out once a decision has been made. In the interim, your application status has been set to cancelled. Depending on our final decision, your application may be re-activated. Kind regards Records Management Team."

They can be reached by e-mailing:

US@guinnessworldrecords.com

or calling 1-718-513-7270

A win for sanity and LetsRun and the power of the internet.

When you have an overweight middle aged woman completing (unverified) 13 hour marathons etc which get added to other questionable marathons for silly world record purposes then questions have got to be asked. Same applies to lovable laughing Larry, it's all just ridiculous and makes a laughing stock of the sport, whether serious/semi serious or just recreational runner/hobby jogger type stuff.

Guinness could do a lot worse than to start a thread on LR asking for suggestions on criteria to set for record purposes. OK, you'd get a lot of non-serious funny posts, but they would be able to glean some good info. Perhaps Brojo's should contact them.

This PM woman and Larry fella even denigrate the genuine efforts of 5 hour plus people who have trained, made lifestyle changes, etc and actually run/jog most or all of their marathon.

Whats silly about all this entire thing is that at most 5? 10? people will be impacted. I assume the vast majority of runners do not toe the line with their eyes on a Guinness record.

However, as has been pointed out in this thread, there are those that abuse the record to profit off it unfairly. PM has innocent sponsors shelling out to support a World Record Holder... the sponsors I'm sure lack the interest or desire to vet herrecord, as they could easily assume "hey, Guinness does the vetting, I'll chip in to support this person."

Its good that Guinness is putting and end to the bizarre sub-industry they seem to have spawned (PM putting on "races" and bilking folks out of $$ for a questionable event)

You still out there Concerned San Antonian? I bet you never thought this thread would go on this long or take this many twists and turns.

Can't think of all of the wins, but I know there was a DQ at Rocky Raccoon, she got removed from Ultra Signup, and anyone with a brain can tell that she kipped Badwater. Her defender(s) keep saying "Hey still the world record holder" and now it looks like even that part is crumbling.

Good Job Guinness. We of course do not know the outcome of the upcoming review, but I assume given the language of the letter, having a hubby sign off that you completed a race will no longer be considered sufficient criteria.

Good news. There has to be some component involving actually racing for it to be meaningful.

The way it now stands, it's as if you could set the record for racing in the most Indy 500's by claiming that every time you drove 500 miles you completed another Indy 500.

Guinness needs to count only races on courses certified by a credible national organization that completed in under a minimum time that ensures that the person actually ran, as opposed to walking (say 4 hours). Walking 26.2 miles is not racing in a marathon, nor is covering an uncertified course that may or may not be 26.2 miles.

Thank you, sane people! wrote:

Good news. There has to be some component involving actually racing for it to be meaningful.

The way it now stands, it's as if you could set the record for racing in the most Indy 500's by claiming that every time you drove 500 miles you completed another Indy 500.

Guinness needs to count only races on courses certified by a credible national organization that completed in under a minimum time that ensures that the person actually ran, as opposed to walking (say 4 hours). Walking 26.2 miles is not racing in a marathon, nor is covering an uncertified course that may or may not be 26.2 miles.

PM has gamed the system so many ways already it has to be more than that.

She runs her 3 mile loops on a certified course.

She has a cut off (albeit a lame one)

She has a website that advertises the races well in advance

She post the results on a website

The trouble is, she says she runs a race in 3:59 or 13:59.. its her word.

What she doesn't have is unbiased lap counters and timers.

Even if Guiness says 4 hrs, theres nothing to stop her from reporting a sub 4 and her husband verifying it.

I know some of those random records that people try on TV (think Kimmell or Kelly and Michael and stuff) always have a spot where they say "so and so from Guinness is here to ratify the result if a record is completed."

There needs to be something similar for marathons. You can't have your hubby sign off. You can't have your best friend sign off. You need to have a random person who doesn't have a dog in the fight sign off.

I hate to ban loop courses since Kip has proved you can even cheat a point to point course, but maybe a maximum number of loops (similar to a max elevation drop for a world record... no more than 2-3 loops for a Guinness certified marathon" or something like that. Or else mandating chip times at the loops regardless of number. Heck, even a point to point, mandate chip checks at 5 points to get splits.

I know there are a lot of awesome ultras that do 1,2,3,4 mile loops and I've run some of them, but again, seeing as there are probably 5 people in the universe trying for a Frequent Marathoner record at any given time, I really doubt that sort of a loop restriction would hurt registration at them, and if the record chasers stay away, it will make life easier for the RD anyway.

Requiring a lot of chip check points might really be a key part of this. Any system can be cheated, but it takes a bit more effort to get a bunch of chip times accurate rather than just write down a time when you deem you've finished your daily marathon.

She is now "famous" for her influence on the evolution of record and race rules! Ten bucks says Badwater tightens up their rules after PM rode her minivan all over the desert! This is awesome!

For old times sake, I googled up her race website.

Click on the "training program" link on the far left of the nav bar.

It doesn't go anywhere!

Rather amusing, though also somewhat telling.

http://www.iranmarathons.com

Wow, there's only so far you can stretch political correctness and use of the word "marathon." If I walk 3 miles a day during my normal routine, did I then complete a marathon in 9 days? If so, this means I can hope to complete somewhere around 3400 consecutive marathons in my lifetime. I now want the title of "most consecutive marathons" along with "slowest marathoner." I expect a huge trophy and a parade.

why train? wrote:

For old times sake, I googled up her race website.

Click on the "training program" link on the far left of the nav bar.

It doesn't go anywhere!

Rather amusing, though also somewhat telling.

http://www.iranmarathons.com

You've gotta chuckle when you look at that website, she's carrying on like nothing negative has happened, talk about thick skinned, and amazingly people will still hand over their hard earned cash for the sham races.

I can just see her next publicity stunt, 'I was the last legitimate Guinness World Record Holder for...'

Legit (in her mind) wrote:

I can just see her next publicity stunt, 'I was the last legitimate Guinness World Record Holder for...'

Lovable laughing Larry likes that line.

Who wrote the mean comment on Doug's blog?

This is amazing!

Seriously, time for a new thread. The LRs deserve to know.

How about: "Countdown until PM's records are gone"

But he does, inexplicably count his in the streak of most consecutive Boston's run. WTF? Not an official finisher, but counted in most consecutive Boston's run?

Meb K wrote:

@Dave M - Dave McGillivray does in fact run the Boston Marathon course the evening of the race. However, he does not count himself in the race results as an official finisher.

That's all fine and well, but I would like to see something official posted by Guiness on the web somewhere rather than just a copy and paste from an email you got. Not that I doubt the email's authenticity, but let's not drop this just yet.

Can anyone verify if this is true?

I think I finally have a glimmer of proof that Larry Macon is an absolute cheater. He contacted me AGAIN about 2 weeks ago (much to my disgust - because he's MARRIED!!!!!!!!! - not that that stops him from trying with an endless number of women and not because he stops to check out his loos in the mirror!!!! UGH!!!) but here's the proof. He wrote me that he was at Charlie Alewine's race on a Monday and didn't see me because he was "sleeping" when we all started on Tues. That would have been a trick worthy of a Las Vegas act because I called his office on that Monday to check if he was there and of course he was. One of the other women who are fed up with his cheating also checked on his "running" a Charlie race on President's Day - when he supposedly was in California. Guess what? He was again in his San Antonio office. Plus, I heard from a good source that someone followed him when he left Charlie's race on a Sunday morning and he drove to the LA airport. Then you look at the race results from I RAN MARATHONS from this past Friday and there's another "result" when he was at work and then traveling to a race up north. Does he not realize people are smartand it was just a matter of time before ALL THE CHEATING will be known. BTW, true race results are listed on the sheet at Charlie's races when each runner finishes so why are Larry Macon's not there for races no one "sees" him at? That's 3 marathons in the last month or so that weren't actually completed but "counted" for the numbers he braggingly wears on his shirt.

TO LARRY MACON (because I'm sure you read this blog) 1:Maybe get your staff involved with your cheating because you can't be in 2 places at a time. 2:Start paying them off like you do Charlie and Parvaneh because at some point, someone is going to turn on you. 3:As a cheater, stop with the friend act aka don't IM, email, or act like we have anything in common - I'm going to be polite because I don't want to be sued or harassed like you have done to others who you deem as a threat. 4:I know you do not deserve the record you cheated to get.