Ashton Eaton 49.07 400m HURDLES - 2nd place at FBKG!!!

Please tell me again how many 110 hurdlers have broken 48? or 48.5 even? You pretend you're somehow a track expert, but seem to think that 400h is just hurdling form + 400 speed when form is a minor part. 400h is about getting a good rhythm.

Now you're somehow making the claim that the 15th best time of the year is terrible.

dingle wrote:

Please tell me again how many 110 hurdlers have broken 48? or 48.5 even? You pretend you're somehow a track expert, but seem to think that 400h is just hurdling form + 400 speed when form is a minor part. 400h is about getting a good rhythm.

Now you're somehow making the claim that the 15th best time of the year is terrible.

So, Eaton isn't good at 400m or 1500m either? How many world class 110hurdlers have Eaton's endurance? Your argument isn't just invalid, your entire outlook on track performances and training is.

And on top of this I never made an argument what the 400h takes that 110 hurdlers necessarily have. You inserted some kind of pseudo argument that I didn't make into my current argument that 49.07 is not some kind of miraculous time (which it isn't on the world level).

So not only do you clearly not understand track, but you can't read or make a coherent thought. I would expect as much from an Oregon shill. How dare I say your messiah had a non-elite performance, how dare I right? What do I know? 49.07 is PHENOMENAL. Only the very greatest in event have ever run faster.

Since you mentioned Felix Sanchez, let's compare. Felix Sanchez's 400m PR is 44.90, and his 400mh PR is 47.25, for a difference of 2.35 seconds.

Meanwhile, Ashton Eaton's respective PRs in those events are 45.64 and 49.07, for a difference of 3.43 seconds.

So clearly, according to the numbers, Eaton's 49.07 is still a ways off from what he should potentially be able to run given his talent level. In that regard, I guess I see your point.

But on the other hand, I think you're being pretty harsh in your judgement. For one thing, Felix Sanchez is one of the greatest 400m hurdlers of all time. While Ashton Eaton is a decathlete who has occasionally dabbled in the 400m hurdles. The hurdles are not an event you can excel in from pure talent. It takes practice. For a 45.6 guy who rarely runs the 400m hurdles, 49.07 is impressive.

Secondly, it's early June. It's unlikely that Eaton is in top form at this point. And by the time he is in top form, he probably won't be competing in the 400m hurdles. Felix ran his top times in August during championship events.

Basically what I'm getting at is this: Chill Out. It was a very good time for a decathlete in June. That's all we're saying.

My biggest argument is that you are an idiot. By claiming that 49.07 is nearly awful for someone who runs 45.6 and 13.4 and 4:33 you are suggesting that there is no specific skills for the 400 hurdles. You're just wrong about that.

Also, your claim that Felix Sanchez's 800 time was meaningful for making equivalent time comparisons was similarly idiotic.

My point about the 110 hurdles is that high hurdling form is almost unrelated to 400 hurdles, while you seem to think that if you are a good 400 meter runner and can high hurdle that your first time out at 400 hurdles you're going to run to your potential.

15th and Agate, hmmm, where could that be? lol

I am being harsh I agree. But the reason I am harsh on the time (and not the athlete) is because I know about the sport more than people in the thread could care for and I hate seeing the paid shills attack like rabid animals because someone states something different from their (paid for or emotional) opinion.

Yes, Felix Sanchez is one of the greatest, but there is likely a reason he won in London at 34 years old. The event is weak and has been for awhile and Sanchez is a great athlete. Sanchez is also more of an endurance rather than speed oriented 400m athlete, like Wariner, or Young for instance. His 800 time is pretty telling. But 47.6 is like running 1:44.5 or thereabouts. A 49 would roughly be like 1:50, which is worth 4:05 on the McMillan tables.

and I never said it was a bad time, I said it wasn't an exclamation point, it wasn't a great time, it wasn't a threadworthy *ocksucking kind of time. And thats where I was wrong, because I didn't toe the party or ideological line. Basically I didn't bend over and suck one and for that not only is my argument invalid but I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Textbook shilling. Seems to happen regularly here when one criticizes a certain group of athletes. Only zealots look at moderate differing opinions from there own as dissent.

Its like a 4:05 mile or 10.5 100m. Edwin Moses (the greatest ever) ran 47.45 in 1977. The record in the mile then was 3:51, the 100m was 9.95, and the 400 hurdles has always had lower competition because it is a harder technical event.

Pretty simple to understand, explainable and logical. An example of a moderate opinion but completely wrong and idiotic in this thread. How dare I.

Funniest thread ever... 49.07 is not fast for a guy that has only run the event a few times? Ha ha ha... Then I feel very bad for all US 400H runners (except for the 2 who have run faster than Eaton this year). They should all quit track immediately... Now if you consider that the US is a powerhouse in the 400H, I think that pretty much all 400H runners in the world should just hang up their spikes. They are just too slow...

I believe you're saying that comparing Eaton's performance to the 400H record isn't valid because the event hasn't progressed as much as other sprints, so the record is softer than other sprint records.

Can you explain what you think the 400H would have progressed to by now given more talent contesting the event and examples of athletes you think might have been able to post such times if they had chosen to devote themselves to it?

dingle wrote:

My biggest argument is that you are an idiot. By claiming that 49.07 is nearly awful for someone who runs 45.6 and 13.4 and 4:33 you are suggesting that there is no specific skills for the 400 hurdles. You're just wrong about that.

Also, your claim that Felix Sanchez's 800 time was meaningful for making equivalent time comparisons was similarly idiotic.

My point about the 110 hurdles is that high hurdling form is almost unrelated to 400 hurdles, while you seem to think that if you are a good 400 meter runner and can high hurdle that your first time out at 400 hurdles you're going to run to your potential.

and I never refuted that either. You like arguing with straw men?

And "49.07 is not that impressive" "its like running a 4:05 mile" does not equate to "awful". Obviously not for a decathlete. Your extremism is showing. Put it away.

And before you say "but its good for a decathlete" I would definitively agree it is and never refuted that. But in an individual event it is not that good, it is average, to slightly below average for professionals in single events. And the 'this time of year argument' is BS too, its June.

Christian Taylor would be more exciting to watch in this event, but alas he is not a Nike athlete.

Has Christian Taylor indicated an interest in running the 400H?

He is currently ranked 9th in the world. That's pretty awesome.

No, he will never break the 400H world record.

Yes, he's a better decathlete than 400H runner and always will be.

Yes, he will run faster this year at 400H. He's still far from what he can do.

The question in my mind is. Will he break into the top 10 US all-time?

He would need to run 47.63.

Unlikely, but maybe...

Well thats going to have a complex answer because the 400 hurdles is a complicated event.

I would say that the 400 hurdles is the hardest event on the track, but that would be unfair to the 400 and 800. Any sprinter knows how a 400 feels. Any distance runner knows how an 800 feels.

Because they are so hard these 3 events suffer from a talent issue, talent will gravitate towards showcase events that are easier to compete in day in day out. The 100/200 will pull athletes away from 400m. The mile will pull athletes away from 800m.

Then there is the issue of performance, the 400 hurdles requires a technical aspect to hurdling and rhythm. This makes performances inconsistent and effects competition.

The 400 hurdles is probably a second off where it should be if a very talented endurance type 400m like Wariner had attempted it and given it the same effort as say a 43.5 with the technical and rhythm components, as most 400 hurdlers with 400 accolades that differs by about 2.2 (Jackson/Matete/Sanchez) to about 2.8 seconds (Clement/Zyl) and an extreme to Taylor (3.2).

So the 400 hurdles record should be at best 45.7 (with a 43.5 effort) to at worst 46.3. Of course this would be very unlikely to happen and probably why it hasn't because of the nature of the 400m hurdles.

He probably has not, after all it is the 400 hurdles.

I hate making predictions, but I'll make one here.

I think it would be highly unlikely Eaton breaks 48 given his 400m pr of 45.6.

That would be a 2.4 second differential which OG/WC finalists in 400/400 hurdles demonstrate.

I would say the fastest he goes this season in the 400 hurdles is 48.6. If he goes even a tenth faster I would be impressed because it shows he is in the elite technical aspects of the event that athletes with years of experience have and he would have done it in a season.

Interesting - thanks for sharing your thinking. Idle curiosity - do you think Alberto Juantorena could have worked out a step pattern for the 400H, and if so, what do you think he might have run?

As for Christian Taylor, it sounds like the issue isn't his shoe sponsor but his lack of motivation to try to pick up a technically challenging event that I'm guessing doesn't pay as well as his current events. [I dislike Nike as much as anyone, but I find it hard to see this as a Nike issue.]

Over the hurdle wrote:

1992 was an Olympic year.

Bershawn Jackson split 45.06/47.3 (2.24 differential)

Then there's Eaton: 45.63/49.07 (3.44 differential)

And its not like Eaton isn't a skilled hurdler or doesn't have the endurance. Like I said, call a great performance a great performance, don't call a mediocre time for the athlete a great performance simply because its Eaton (which is what you all are doing).

It was funny watching this board over the years. When Alan Webb ran 8:33 in 2006 he got roasted. When Bolt ran 10.09 last year he got roasted. Ryan Hall gets roasted daily for the past several years. Manzano ditto.

So why does Eaton get a free pass with a 49.07 in a weak event that other Gold medalists who aren't sponsored by Nike would do well in too?

Amazing how people are selective and stupid on here. You're quoting times from different years and difference parts of seasons. And using one of the best of all time. My point in mentioning him and young is that hardly anyone runs under 48 consistently albeit the very best ever in their top years. It's ignorant to just make stuff up that doesn't exist,

It's also pathetic that you think Eaton even needs a free pass. He isn't being judged on his 400h success. People are interested in seeing how he progresses and so far he's progressing and the season is still early. Eaton isn't world class in most of his events but people will get excited if he threw the SP 16 meters. But an idiot like you would talk down to them. Eaton ran a 13.35 this year, that's exciting but not world class. Can we not get excited about that?

BS thread wrote:

Eaton is a great athlete, but this is like running a 4:05 mile.

I'd be more impressed if he broke 1:50 in the 800.

Garbage

You mean I'm being selective in that I picked other high profile athletes with OG/WC experience/medals but have one or two specialized events? They get criticized its ok, but how dare you lightly criticize an Oregon decathlete athlete's mediocre time...

The actual irritant is that a decathlete shows up to literally any event and sh*ts a time (and it wouldn't matter what it was) and suddenly its an amazing performance. I mean wow, its like no one else could do that either. He finished second too btw and is only ranked 9th in the world.

Decathletes are so much more amazing than us regular one event athletes. I mean they do 10 events! Thats alot!

Juantorena would have been great at 400 hurdles he would have smashed it if he gave it the time, but he's an example of someone who is very talented going to other events.

Imagine him and Moses facing off in great shape. Who knows how fast the record would be from back then. It would probably still be standing.

Christian Taylor is also just an example. I hope he doesn't give the 400 hurdles a try and focuses on the LJ/TJ records.

And I don't even dislike Nike that much, I'm wearing Nike's right now, I just don't like certain groups acting like zealots and I think we all know who I'm talking about.