TipOfTheIceberg? wrote:
Starting in you late 20s is a serious limiter.
Um, ever heard of Dennis Kimetto?
TipOfTheIceberg? wrote:
Starting in you late 20s is a serious limiter.
Um, ever heard of Dennis Kimetto?
For me it was hitting my early 30s, and realizing it'd been a few years since a PR.
But honestly, once you drop your optimum training, you've conceded that you're no longer trying for the top. For me it was at age 21.
Running Formula reader wrote:
SMJO wrote:People do speedwork for years without improving basic speed. Do you even run?
The point is that the OP can go to a Usain Bolt sprint camp and they will just become slightly faster molasses.
Look at the paces listed. S L O W
OP's pace is slow by your lofty standard. So what? Does it ever matter to her? What matters to her is whether 1 sec/100m improvement is meaningful to HER or not. She is not running to get your approval.
1 sec/100m is 50 sec in 5K and 7 min in marathon. I don't know if anyone finds this insignificant.
That sort of improvement doesn't get the OP down to the times that she thinks are impressive.
On the other hand she seems to be both disappointed and simultaneously think she's pretty awesome relative to pot-bellied guys.
Really not sure what her goal is.
She's already decided a coach isn't worth it.
To discouraged,
6:30 is not pretty good at all. It is awful.
Your idea of not getting a coach to improve is immature and limiting and shows that you actually don't care about getting better.
3 years of training and thinking about quitting is insulting to runners. So, you should quit if you are thinking about it.
And your comment of not wanting to run 40 miles a week to improve is ridiculous. Do you know there are 800m athletes that run 70 miles a week?
blehhhhhhh, uuuuuughh, just gross. Your mind is so weak. Grow as a person first, then you can start running.
Please respond to this….I am starting to think you are a troll.
I don't think it's necessary to be quite this harsh.
6:30 for an essentially untrained adult female is not terrible. See random road race results below.
I do agree that you should't give up before you have even tried. If you don't want to try, that's fine. You can and will go on to live a fulfilling life. But, don't quit feeling like you couldn't have made progress as a runner.
If you do want to really give it a shot, get a coach, and build up your mileage I also think that is admirable. Build your running goals into your life plan. If you still fail to meet your goals after 5 years of training, you can know that you gave it a decent shot. If you have other priorities, that's fine. There is more to life than running.
Race results below for a random mile road race:
Race #3 - Females
1. Brenda Pennell 24 5:05.58
2. Jo Rupp 26 5:16.04
3. Mimi Newcomer 41 5:19.16
4. Betty Mohler 25 5:21.83
5. Allison Baumler 15 5:23.18
6. Talia McKinney 15 5:29.74
7. Heather O'Deay 25 5:41.41
8. Mary Steppi 40 5:46.60
9. Jackie Ochs-Gregory 12 5:49.40
10. Tess Smith 17 5:50.67
11. Beth Esterbrook 34 5:52.22
12. Megan Keener 13 5:55.21
13. Lindsey Roth 12 5:55.92
14. Elise Keener 12 5:56.39
15. Jessica Painter 11 5:59.14
16. Nancy Husson 37 6:10.50
17. Lindsey Shertzer 9 6:11.80
18. Amy Althouse 12 6:22.76
19. Lindsay Guenter 11 6:28.13
20. Kati Musselman 12 6:32.34
21. Patti Adami 46 6:35.27
22. Meghan Ecker 9 6:37.35
23. Emily Frame 15 6:39.04
24. Judith Gilbert 55 6:40.11
25. Heide Moebius 60 6:40.83
26. Jenelle Bennawit 12 6:49.14
27. Elizabeth Frey 10 6:51.05
28. Ellen Ochs-Gregory 10 6:54.45
29. Anna Sigel 10 7:07.01
30. Amanda Kirkham 14 7:08.75
31. Megan Bennawit 11 7:12.64
32. Kelly Freund 10 7:15.29
33. Abby Pontz 11 7:17.50
34. Elise Baker 12 7:19.55
35. Allison O'Deay 11 7:21.44
36. Anna Batson 11 7:23.28
37. April Hubbard 54 7:24.84
38. Janet Rudy 52 7:32.43
39. Chitlin Farner 11 8:15.56
40. Laura Doherty 13 8:16.86
41. Jane Nelson 60 8:32.74
42. Lin Davis 51 9:17.35
43. Jillian Jason 10 9:46.75
My only advice, which is a big topic, is to work on your biomechanics as much as possible.
If you could improve the effeciency of each and every one of your steps, you'll run faster ... even with your current fitness. Check videos on youtube.
After that, it's gonna take time to build strength and stamina to match those women who win your local races.
I hate to say it but I'm starting to feel like this is a troll job. Just a gut feeling.
D1; now slow wrote:
I hate to say it but I'm starting to feel like this is a troll job. Just a gut feeling.
He claimed to be a woman on LetsRun, which we know is not the case, so you are correct.
Some advise wrote:
After that, it's gonna take time to build strength and stamina to match those women who win your local races.
Why does everyone assume that the winners are not trying to get better as well?
It's funny how people get all inspired and motivated that they alone will be the beneficiary of smart training and dedication.
SMJO wrote:
Why does everyone assume that the winners are not trying to get better as well?
It's funny how people get all inspired and motivated that they alone will be the beneficiary of smart training and dedication.
Why do you ask dumba$s rhetorical question after dumba$s rhetorical question on this webforum? Have you really been on this topic all day? Do you ever go out and hang out with people other than the ones who hate you on LetsRun?
Large Eggs wrote:
SMJO wrote:Why does everyone assume that the winners are not trying to get better as well?
It's funny how people get all inspired and motivated that they alone will be the beneficiary of smart training and dedication.
Why do you ask dumba$s rhetorical question after dumba$s rhetorical question on this webforum? Have you really been on this topic all day? Do you ever go out and hang out with people other than the ones who hate you on LetsRun?
No, I have not been on this topic "all day". Is that how you follow a thread? Sit there refreshing it?
You don't know what a rhetorical question is apparently.
If I post on this thread tomorrow it doesn't mean I sat up all night watching it.
I don't have time to go out and hang out. One day you may have responsibilities that prevent that too.
SMJO wrote:
Large Eggs wrote:Why do you ask dumba$s rhetorical question after dumba$s rhetorical question on this webforum? Have you really been on this topic all day? Do you ever go out and hang out with people other than the ones who hate you on LetsRun?
No, I have not been on this topic "all day". Is that how you follow a thread? Sit there refreshing it?
You don't know what a rhetorical question is apparently.
If I post on this thread tomorrow it doesn't mean I sat up all night watching it.
I don't have time to go out and hang out. One day you may have responsibilities that prevent that too.
I have time to go out, but I don't have time to post in this thread 5 times at different times over the last day, and seemingly every other thread. Have you thought about re-evaluating your priorities?
" Seemingly" every other thread. It is actually only a couple of threads of interest and it takes seconds to look at a thread and post.
Notice how you have posted twice in this thread at least for no particular reason? You are actually just like me but not as smart.
Every person here has a lot in common but only some have the stones to use a consistent screen name.
Running, like a lot of things is about consistency and patience.
You've only been running for three years, and without the benefit of training weekly with a group and a coach you have improved from 8:30 to 7:15 miles already so that's great.
Try not to get too muddled with going from one training plan to another, make sure you get a tempo run, quality session and a Sunday long run in every week, then build around those elements. If you stick with it you will improve.
Gradually build mileage, it's easy to do too much too soon, keep relaxed and enjoy your running, enjoy working hard also.
You should definitely do mobility exercises, drills, sprints, and strides regularly. These exercises will definitely improve your running form, efficiency, balance, co-ordination and speed.
Do them before your quality session every week. So, warm up (jog, stretch), do your drills then do your session.
Be patient. You'll improve, don't worry.
bigtool05 wrote:
Pretty much no matter how good you are there will always be people who are better than you, always people that make you think to yourself "wow, he/she is so talented. I'll never be that good." The thing is, they're thinking the same thing about the people who are better than them. If you want to really enjoy the sport and reach your potential, you can't let this type of thinking get to you. Instead you need to take pride in how good you are now; take pride in how hard you've had to work to get to where you are; take pride in how much you've improved and how far you've come; think about all the people who used to beat you, but now you beat them like it's nothing; most of all, enjoy the journey, the constant pursuit of self-betterment. Maybe someday you will be able to run 6:30 pace, but even if you never do, at least you enjoyed the ride.
My high school competition results:
1969/15 yrs old/Sophomore: 5th in Conference Cross-Country meet (2.9 miles)
1970/15 yrs old/Sophomore: 2nd, 880y in Conference Track meet (1st place team in 1 mile relay)
1970/16 yrs old/Junior: 2nd in Conference Cross-Country meet (2.9 miles)
1971/16 yrs old/Junior: 2nd, 880y in Conference Track meet (1st place team in 880 relay/1 mile relay)
1971/17 yrs old/Senior: 2rd place in Conference Cross-Country meet (2.9 miles)
1972/Senior: quit track team
When I was a senior, a kid from my high school, a guy who'd never participated in any sport, and had never trained for anything, joined the cross-country team (he was a sophomore). Without any previous training, he destroyed all of us who'd run track and cross-country for the previous three or four years. I was so stunned - given that each summer during 1970/1971 I had trained consistently at 50 to 70 miles per week, while working 8 hours per day, 6 days per week as a landscaper's assistant (hard physical work) - that I ended up quitting the track team in my senior year, totally discouraged. I have never run a single step again during the past 42 years. I was taught a very painful lesson that no matter how hard some of us train, just as bigtool05 stated, there will ALWAYS be others who possess so much innate, natural ability that all our training, no matter how intense or consistent or inspired by our love of running, will be rendered pointless by others more naturally talented than we are.
I could never break 2 minutes for the 880, my best time being 2:01.4 in my Junior year, age 16, in 1971.
discouraged wrote:
I've honestly never done a timed 400 meter sprint so I don't know my time for that.
My fastest mile time is 6:35. Not too quick, but I was thrilled to get under 7 minutes for the first time in my life. I never ran track or anything in high school.
Try running a hard 400m and see if you can get it under 90 seconds. I wouldn't suggest thinking of it as an all-out sprint, just a one-off hard effort.
It would also probably help to throw some 100s and 200s into the mix when you do track workouts - pickups short enough that you can get a sense of what it feels like to go significantly faster than 6:30 pace.
There's nothing obligating you to keep working on getting faster, but there's also nothing you've said to indicate you've gotten everything you can out of your ability.
See below for one of my favorite results progressions from the NYC marathon archive. Yasuhiro also runs shorter races - he recently ran 4M in 24:54 at age 61 - but for years he was no faster than you are now.
1984 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M32 T365 NY United States USA 8943 7826 3367 4:32:02 10:22 4:32:02 46.6
1985 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M33 V318 NY United States USA 5663 5231 2252 3:49:36 8:45 3:49:36 55.2
1986 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M34 14267 NY United States USA 13021 11551 4892 4:20:19 9:56 4:20:19 48.7
1987 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M35 12980 NY United States USA 15403 13405 5401 4:33:49 10:27 4:33:49 46.3
1988 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M36 5923 NY United States USA 16482 14281 5614 4:36:56 10:34 4:36:56 45.7
1989 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M37 14434 NY United States USA 12309 11087 4545 3:59:25 9:08 3:59:25 52.9
1990 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M38 14173 NY United States JAP 17094 14670 5813 4:39:59 10:41 4:39:13 45.4
1991 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M39 14537 NY United States JAP 10098 9192 3949 3:53:50 8:55 3:51:35 54.7
1992 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M40 14909 NY United States JAP 9535 8825 2673 3:47:35 8:41 3:43:49 56.6
1993 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M41 12892 NY United States USA 5753 5261 1501 3:45:47 8:37 3:40:28 57.5
1994 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M42 13529 NY United States JAP 9811 8833 2809 3:57:47 9:04 3:50:31 55.0
1995 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M43 11296 NY United States JPN 7489 6829 2042 3:52:54 8:53 3:44:11 56.5
1996 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M44 11403 NY United States USA 7360 6554 1850 3:50:57 8:48 3:40:41 57.4
1997 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M45 13359 NY United States JPN 5023 4602 1301 3:39:50 8:23 3:28:32 60.8
1999 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M47 M844 NY United States JPN 2549 2377 262 3:24:09 3:23:53 45:55 1:38:10 2:33:29 7:46 3:10:30 66.5
2000 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M48 2938 TO Japan JPN 1856 1750 183 3:18:45 3:17:47 48:00 1:39:27 2:32:31 7:32 3:03:23 69.1
2001 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M49 2042 TO Japan JPN 1733 1539 143 3:21:53 3:21:25 47:44 1:40:20 2:33:53 7:41 3:05:19 68.4
2002 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M50 2040 NY United States USA 2382 2144 125 3:25:51 3:25:04 48:19 1:40:36 2:34:59 7:49 3:07:13 67.7
2003 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M51 6007 NY United States JPN 1306 1188 65 3:18:13 3:17:50 47:08 1:38:22 2:30:26 7:33 2:55:36 71.1
2004 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M52 2017 NY United States JPN 791 731 26 3:08:23 3:08:03 42:19 1:30:59 2:21:36 7:10 2:45:25 75.5
2005 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M53 3019 CPTC NY United States JPN 707 661 24 3:03:36 3:03:18 42:56 1:30:41 6:59 2:39:46 78.1
2006 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M54 1801 CPTC NY United States JPN 669 631 19 2:57:26 2:57:01 0:20:39 0:41:04 1:01:48 1:22:33 1:27:05 1:43:57 2:05:06 2:26:59 2:48:25 6:45 2:32:53 81.7
2007 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M55 1914 CPTC NY United States JPN 24970 18348 879 5:05:13 4:42:14 0:27:57 0:56:13 1:24:51 1:59:03 2:09:09 2:34:53 3:14:38 3:51:59 4:27:37 10:46 4:01:28 51.7
2008 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M56 468 CPTC NY United States JPN 717 661 4 2:57:08 2:56:48 0:20:27 0:40:36 1:01:21 6:44 2:29:51 83.3
2009 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M57 701 CPTC NY United States JPN 898 846 5 2:58:58 2:58:44 0:21:13 0:42:03 1:02:47 1:23:58 1:28:32 1:45:14 2:06:35 2:28:17 2:49:25 6:49 2:30:03 83.2
2010 YASUHIRO MAKOSHI M58 691 CPTC NY United States JPN 683 630 2 2:57:30 2:57:09 0:20:29 0:40:39 1:01:00 1:21:40 1:26:11 1:42:55 2:04:22 2:25:59 2:47:46 6:45 2:27:19 84.7
Very true ... When I was a better runner (like 32 min 10k) I was still always dissatisfied, and wondering why I could not run faster.
6:35 mile is not too shabby. It should get you a 46-47 min 10k. If your 10k times are much faster than that, you're likely more of an endurance type. Some other ideas for improving mile time and speed, which will translate to improved 5k/10k times:
- hill repeats
- 200/400 repeats
- 30-30-30 (30 secs hard, 30 secs easy, for 30 minutes),
but start with 15-15-15 to get used to this.
- ladders: 200-400-800-400-200 with jog betweens, run multiple ladders as your speed endurance improves.
You don't need access to a track, just a reliable Garmin type watch. Set it to beep/auto-lap-record every 200m or 400m even if running 800s, you can validate your ability to hold pace. Unless you hate numbers and record stuff, then just try to run goal time/pace.
There are many books on variations of these workouts. I highly recommend "Daniels Running Formula" - easy to follow detailed plans for 5k-marathon telling you exactly how fast to run workouts based on current race times. Or you can get the pace estimates here:
All these workouts are much more fun, and you will perform much better, when running in a group with a mix of whips and carrots: runners slightly slower and faster than yourself. Take turns leading out. Observe how others start way too fast and die, while some come on strong at the end.
Good luck, have fun. Post back in the fall or one year later with your progress.
I am not a troll.
I did not write the post about beating pot bellied males--someone stole my name for that one. I wrote all the rest though.
I'm not quitting. I enjoy running even at my paces. I have kids and a life. I'd like to place in some local road races, that's really the extent of my small goals. I do not need a coach for that. Winning females in my age group in local races (1000-2000 runners total) usually have times around 19-20 minutes. I do not need a coach to achieve that. I may, however, have to put in more work than them, since these women, at least the ones I know who run 19s, either played college sports or ran track. They can run a 20:00 flat 5k on 15 miles a week because they trained for years prior. I might have to run 40-50 miles a week to do the same. Is that worth it to me? I don't know.
Oh, and in case you're wondering, I frequently measure myself against other women because I have self esteem issues. I wasn't raised to feel valued, and hence I feel threatened by women who are superior to me in any capacity.