Who had the better career: Adam or Kara Goucher?

Historian of this cesspool wrote:

...but like Webb has become the subject of jokes by the insecure trolls on this message board.

What? Are you kidding? No one on hear dislikes Webb. Webb is the GOAT.

Some of the best trolls even went to watch his farewell race in Washington and got their picture taken with him!!

luv2run wrote:

Really, this warrants a discussion? Kara, hands down. As the president would say "full stop" "end of discussion".

If you value you place, ie Mo Farah fans, or MF prior to his 1500 PR anyway, then Kara does indeed take it primarily due to her 10,000 medal and Boston podium.

If, like me, you as a fan value time as more important, then Adam takes it. Compare his PRs to WRs or to contemporary World leaders for his era and do the same with Kara. Adams stand up reasonably at his best events (3-5k).

Kara's two greatest showings, mentioned above, are with shockingly slow times. Compare Shalane's 10,000 medal TIME with Kara's or the same 2 runner's PRs. Boston was even more of a joke. 10 minutes - literally - faster would be significant. The sole exception is Kara's HM PR. Very impressive.

Some (Meb) might say that placing high is all that really matters. Oh well. Neither actually won races in any forum beyond NCAA.

Both careers are tainted, IMHO, by their association with Salazar. Both are dirty pigs as far as I am concerned.

However, Kara does have global hardware courtesy of her 3rd place showing at the 2007 World Championships.

She also ran that ridiculous half (1:06:57!) at the Great North Run. I would argue that is the top performance that either Adam or Kara has ever had. In addition to all of this, she is hot.

In conclusion, Kara probably wins. It is an argument worth having though and had Adam stayed healthy, he could've easily been more successful.[/quote]

Nope. The field that she faced was not the field that she faced at the Olympics the following year where she place 10th with a P.R....weak 2007 field.

The ridiculous half marathon was downhill.

Never did much. Kara was highly overrated and a media hog, cashing in on every opportunity. Was going to go after Paula's a record one day...never happened. Was going to break 2:20....never happened. Was going to break 2:22...never happened.

Sorry, more hype than anything else.

Please do your homework next time. Thanks for playing.

However, Kara does have global hardware courtesy of her 3rd place showing at the 2007 World Championships.

She also ran that ridiculous half (1:06:57!) at the Great North Run. I would argue that is the top performance that either Adam or Kara has ever had. In addition to all of this, she is hot.

In conclusion, Kara probably wins. It is an argument worth having though and had Adam stayed healthy, he could've easily been more successful.[/quote]

Nope. The field that she faced was not the field that she faced at the Olympics the following year where she place 10th with a P.R....weak 2007 field.

The ridiculous half marathon was downhill.

Never did much. Kara was highly overrated and a media hog, cashing in on every opportunity. Was going to go after Paula's a record one day...never happened. Was going to break 2:20....never happened. Was going to break 2:22...never happened.

Sorry, more hype than anything else.

Please do your homework next time. Thanks for playing.

runner who professes wrote:

Kara benefited by swimming in a very shallow US women's talent pool. They are the Andy Roddicks of running--flashes of brilliance, moderate success, rarely won the big one.

This I agree with, well put "runner who professes". A very shallow US women's talent pool indeed.

Totally agree. HIGHLY overrated career. Hot? I don't think so.

Nope. The field that she faced was not the field that she faced at the Olympics the following year where she place 10th with a P.R....weak 2007 field.

The ridiculous half marathon was downhill.

Never did much. Kara was highly overrated and a media hog, cashing in on every opportunity. Was going to go after Paula's a record one day...never happened. Was going to break 2:20....never happened. Was going to break 2:22...never happened.

Sorry, more hype than anything else.

Please do your homework next time. Thanks for playing.[/quote]

James Howlett wrote:

Kara did make multiple Olympic teams but Adam's Half Marathon PR is almost 3 minutes faster.

Both have an NCAA XC individual title.

When MEN make comments like this, I have to ask- do you not realize they AREN'T the same gender? Her 1:06:57 HM (albeit downhill/aided) equates to 58:44 for a MAN. She's clearly the better runner and has a World Championship medal (in the 10K) to go with her quick HM times. Forget whether American depth was weak or not- she was World Class in both the 10K and HM.

kara mf goucher wrote:

James Howlett wrote:

Kara did make multiple Olympic teams but Adam's Half Marathon PR is almost 3 minutes faster.

Both have an NCAA XC individual title.

When MEN make comments like this, I have to ask- do you not realize they AREN'T the same gender? Her 1:06:57 HM (albeit downhill/aided) equates to 58:44 for a MAN. She's clearly the better runner and has a World Championship medal (in the 10K) to go with her quick HM times. Forget whether American depth was weak or not- she was World Class in both the 10K and HM.

I think it is safe to say that James Howlett was kidding when he made that comment.

162430 wrote:

kara mf goucher wrote:

When MEN make comments like this, I have to ask- do you not realize they AREN'T the same gender? Her 1:06:57 HM (albeit downhill/aided) equates to 58:44 for a MAN. She's clearly the better runner and has a World Championship medal (in the 10K) to go with her quick HM times. Forget whether American depth was weak or not- she was World Class in both the 10K and HM.

I think it is safe to say that James Howlett was kidding when he made that comment.

Yes, actually me making that comment was a snarky way of suggesting that Kara has had the better career.

I wouldn't say that she is CLEARLY the better runner though which is what makes this a fun debate.

1500: Adam faster by 29 seconds

Mile: Adam faster by 43 seconds

3000: Adam faster by 60 seconds

5000: Adam faster by 1:45

10000: Adam faster by 2:56

Obviously Adam was better!

Running School 101 wrote:

runner who professes wrote:

Kara benefited by swimming in a very shallow US women's talent pool. They are the Andy Roddicks of running--flashes of brilliance, moderate success, rarely won the big one.

This I agree with, well put "runner who professes". A very shallow US women's talent pool indeed.

Yes, the US talent pool is very shallow. I 100% agree with this. Unfortunately for you, this means absolutely nothing in the Kara vs. Adam debate. Please go back and read my post on the first page. Adam was MORE SUCCESSFUL than Kara on a national scale. 3 US titles to only 1 for Kara. Kara's international accomplishments are what arguably give her the nod over Adam. Could someone argue that the international pool for women is very shallow compared to the men? Absolutely. In fact, I think that is very true. However, the point that you are agreeing with is complete asinine. Please get smarter.

162430 wrote:

However, the point that you are agreeing with is complete asinine. Please get smarter.

Well, d*mn. Completely asinine.

Adam married Kara. Kara married Adam.

Adam wins.

I think that Adam is actually the better runner but that Kara has had the better career. That's just the way the ball bounces sometimes.

Bernie MacDonald's wrote:

I think that Adam is actually the better runner but that Kara has had the better career. That's just the way the ball bounces sometimes.

I agree with this.

Also, Adam was a tough-ass mofo. Kara's crying at the finish line crap is ridiculous. In athletics, you're out there to destroy your competition. Tom Hanks said it best when he said, "There's no crying in baseball!" There should be no crying in any sport.

That crying soiled her career. Adam's elliptigo crap was post-career (I think), so it doesn't count.

With Kara, it's like, was she able to place high in some international events due to the overall shallowness of women's elite level talent and the greater tendency of slow, tactical races in female distance running OR would she have been as competitive (i.e. raised her game) in deeper races that went out at honest effort paces?

Kara is not done! She will be in Rio! On the medal stand! You heard it here first! Boo-YA!

This is a tough decision. The tie-breaker will be settled with an ElliptiGo race up Palomar Mtn!