Alberto Salazar Vs. Charlie Francis

Yeah, but Mary wasn't really guilty like Ben was. C'mon, no one believes she really was.

I think that the condemnation comes from the scale of the cheating. There was worldwide publicity when they stripped Johnson of the Olympic Gold. As well, the Dubin trial (or whatever it was called) was even televised. Slaney was in her late 30's and her best years were probably behind her, so I doubt that so many people cared or noticed.

Monty

I can't speak for Mary's entire career, but once again, she 'failed' her late 90's drug test because of a ratio issue. He testosterone tested normal and her epi-testosterone tested abnormally low. This skewed the ratio and made her testosterone look abnormally high based on the ratio between the two. This happens because the test is flawed and does not take into account a woman's monthly deal.

Double Standard, don't start slingin' mud on Alberto, Mary or the Oregon Project boys when you don't know any of them or the facts.

hi skoolr

hi skoolr wrote:

I can't speak for Mary's entire career, but once again, she 'failed' her late 90's drug test because of a ratio issue. He testosterone tested normal and her epi-testosterone tested abnormally low. This skewed the ratio and made her testosterone look abnormally high based on the ratio between the two. This happens because the test is flawed and does not take into account a woman's monthly deal.

The test is flawed. No testosterone/epitestosterone tests have ever been established on woman past the age of 35, in perimenopausal phase or on hormone replacement therapy. No hormonal norms in athletics have been established for women over age 35. This makes the test flawed.

Thank you very much. As expected we will justify (or defend) the behavior of the white american female distance runner and her coach. Meanwhile we will crucify the black canadian male sprinter. I am not saying that anyone in the Oregon Project is using anything illegal. They are equally as innocent as anyone working with Charlie Francis.

Yeah.....They are both quilty as hell. My parents taught me at a young age that I should expect to be judged by the company I keep. Salazar is Dirty. Francis is dirty. To say that one is more dirty than another is ridiculous. A $20 whore and a $1000 whore have one main thing in common. They are both whores.

You idiots are screwed. Don't give me this racist BS. For the reasons listed above, Mary was scammed big time. Ben was as guilty as can be. End of story.

Tell that to Libbie Hickman. Wonder how it felt to finish fourth, and off the team, behind a drug cheat like Slaney. Slaney cheated. She got caught. She lied and lied and lied.

Who has taken more ccs of junk yet webb or ritz?

guest wrote:

Tell that to Libbie Hickman. Wonder how it felt to finish fourth, and off the team, behind a drug cheat like Slaney. Slaney cheated. She got caught. She lied and lied and lied.

Don't forget, she also cried.

Being a racist is B.S.???? Yeah right. It is only B.S. if you are accustom to being a racist. I will be willing to bet by your comments that you are a white middle class male (not that there is anything wrong with it). Mary Slaney is a drug cheat and always has been. In her early years there was no testing procedures. So is Ben Johnson. He got caught on a bigger stage, during the prime of his career. They were both being coached by men who knew better. Both men are still coaching.

You are mind-bogglingly stupid. You should be more clever whn you're trying to be provocative. But you can't argue your point competently and are thus failing as a troll. Your racism argument is just retarded.

Here's the deal:

1)This board is distance-oriented. Thus, we will tend to cut distance heroes a little slack when dealing with the drug issue.

2)The Slaney thing happened years ago. The marion thing is still happening. So there's more reason to be concerned about the current event.

3)Charlie Francis advocates drug use publicly. Salazar does not. This is a MAJOR difference, a substantial difference, and one that should raise red flags when an athlete secretly begins training with a coach.

4)Charlie admittedly administered drugs to BJ. His nickname is "Charlie the Chemist." There aren't even allegations of Salazar doing any such thing to any athlete, and he doesn't have the rep that Francis does.

5)Marion has been duplicitous about the extent of her invlovement with Francis.

You are setting up a false parallel -- there is little logical similarity between the situations of the two coaches.

I challenge you to respond to this logically and coherently without resorting to ad hominems.

HB wrote:

Yeah.....They are both quilty as hell. My parents taught me at a young age that I should expect to be judged by the company I keep. Salazar is Dirty. Francis is dirty. To say that one is more dirty than another is ridiculous. A $20 whore and a $1000 whore have one main thing in common. They are both whores.

Ya, but one is a much better looking whore.

Reason

I am sorry that you can't see logically when it comes to your heroes.

1. The board is Distance Oriented. We agree which is why you have a hard time seeing distance people as guilty.

2. We are comparing Slaney drug bust in 96 with Ben Johnsons drug bust in 88. Slaney is more current than Ben Johnson. Hence a Salazar athlete has been busted more recently than a Francis athlete.

3. Francis has simply been more honest about his illegal activities. Salazar says one thing (so that the americans can say he is a hero) and does another. So Salazar is a dishonest cheat. I guess that is better.

4. No allegations against Salazar?????

There have been allegations on this board about him as an athlete. Slaney has tested positive. If you really want some dirt talk to Annette Peters. Why do you think she ended her career on Univ. of Oregons track as an asics athlete after spending most of her career as a Nike athlete coached by Salazar. It was a chance to put it in the face of the Nike man that expected her to take the needle. I WAS THERE.

Double standard: are you using Ms. Peters' name with her knowledge and consent? If you were there, why not identify yourself instead of making the allegations and then throwing someone else's name out there to support them?

The key difference between Francis and Salazar is that Francis publicly admits that he gave his athletes drugs. I have read a number of posts on this message board alleging that Salazar took drugs and has been involved in giving athletes drugs. I do not know if these things are true, they may or may not be. I don't think that Salazar gets a "free pass" on this issue for any reason other than the fact that he has a) not been caught and b) not publicly admitted any drug use/involvement. If he ever was caught and/or admitted it, he would get even more scathing treatment than Francis gets.

Annette Peters was not coached by Salazar. She was coached by Tom Heinonen. You don't know what you are talking about.

In 1996 she was coached by Alberto.

No she wasn't. She was coached by Heinonen who was shocked to find out the day before the first round of the 5000 that Lynn Jennings was running the five and not the ten. This was dismaying to him because he knew it pushed Annette farther down the field. Salazar was not coaching Peters. He was coaching Slaney. Jennings coach John Babington talked to Heinonen and told him of his and Jennings plans before the heat sheets were posted for the first round. The look on Heinonen's face when he heard Jennings was to be in the five was priceless according to Babington.