Is Billy Nelson Indian?
Is Billy Nelson Indian?
Posters on this thread can be sorted according to the following categories:
- people who had never heard of Peltier until they saw a singlet at Peyton Jordan
- people who have read the (current) Wikipeida entry on Peltier
- people who have read one book on Peltier
- people whose study of the case extends beyond the above categories
It seems that, so far, one person other than myself falls in the final category.
I have never stated that Peltier was innocent. Like everyone on this thread, I don't know. I have stated that the proceedings related to his arrest and conviction have been disgraceful, and that for this reason he will likely be pardoned eventually.
The purpose of my first response was simply to rebuke the idea than Nelson has gone "off the reservation" in expressing his opinion, and to inform the OP (who had never heard of Peltier) that this is a case on which justice officials outweighing most of us in knowledge of the facts and the law have reasonable disagreement on the validity of the trial(s) and conviction.
I don't really see what you have to argue with there.
Cheers.
sp2 wrote:
At a minimum, read this brilliant debunking of Mathiessen's fairy tale by Scott Anderson (one of the very best investigative journalists on the planet):
http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/peltierbk07.htm
sp2 - Is the book worth reading?
If I'm going to read the book should I read it before I read the link above or after?
And knowing almost nothing on this, I find it interesting that Peltier admits to shooting at the FBI agents in his own book from 1999 yet he's got a legion of activists supporting his cause. Did most of his defenders before 1999 think he had been shooting at FBI agents?
You guys really think LP isn't Billy Jack?
this is the future speaking wrote:
The purpose of my first response was simply to rebuke the idea than Nelson has gone "off the reservation" in expressing his opinion, and to inform the OP (who had never heard of Peltier) that this is a case on which justice officials outweighing most of us in knowledge of the facts and the law have reasonable disagreement on the validity of the trial(s) and conviction.
If that was the purpose of your first response, you failed miserably with this rather rude set of remarks:
"1. Thanks for being honest about your pathetic ignorance. It's good to know who I'm educating.
2. Peltier is not an Indian. He is Native American.
3. If you knew anything about this case whatsoever, you would know that there is a substantial body of evidence calling into question Peltier's trial and conviction. A lot of this has come from former FBI agents and police involved in the case.
4. People who argue against Peltier's release, like people who argued for years against Rubin Carter's release, will end up on the wrong side of history.
Happy to inform you."
+1
you made some insulting remarks there, and then tried to pass off your posts as simply fact finding. Please.
What not a single Robbie Robertson fan on letsrun?
wejo wrote:
knowing almost nothing on this, I find it interesting that Peltier admits to shooting at the FBI agents in his own book from 1999 yet he's got a legion of activists supporting his cause. Did most of his defenders before 1999 think he had been shooting at FBI agents?
I don't know much about it either, but if the agents were trying to kill him and his family, I question that there was anything wrong with him trying to defend himself.
I do know that the corporate run government and it's agencies do much wrong, and as a matter of course try to blame their wrong doings on the victims of their travesties.
J.R. wrote:
wejo wrote:knowing almost nothing on this, I find it interesting that Peltier admits to shooting at the FBI agents in his own book from 1999 yet he's got a legion of activists supporting his cause. Did most of his defenders before 1999 think he had been shooting at FBI agents?
I don't know much about it either, but if the agents were trying to kill him and his family, I question that there was anything wrong with him trying to defend himself.
I do know that the corporate run government and it's agencies do much wrong, and as a matter of course try to blame their wrong doings on the victims of their travesties.
they weren't. They were driving on a road.
wejo wrote:
sp2 wrote:At a minimum, read this brilliant debunking of Mathiessen's fairy tale by Scott Anderson (one of the very best investigative journalists on the planet):
http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/peltierbk07.htmsp2 - Is the book worth reading?
If I'm going to read the book should I read it before I read the link above or after?
And knowing almost nothing on this, I find it interesting that Peltier admits to shooting at the FBI agents in his own book from 1999 yet he's got a legion of activists supporting his cause. Did most of his defenders before 1999 think he had been shooting at FBI agents?
-------------------------
Wejo-
If you want to get a decent idea of the truth, read Anderson's piece, and do some Googling (a little deeper than Wikipedia).
If you want to understand why Redford, Ollie Stone, Pete Seeger, Billy Nelson, and hundreds of others think Peltier's some kind of hero, then read Mathiessen's book.
If you read the book first, you'll probably buy into Mathiessen's narrative, like everybody else does.
Then read Anderson's piece, and you'll realize what a crock the book was.
If you do it the other way, you'll probably see Mathiessen's story for the terrible distortion it is, but you'll still enjoy the story, and pick up some interesting historical context, etc.
It's a very valuable lesson on how easily-duped most people are --even smart and well-intentioned people.
(Especially when they're governed by powerful preconceptions.)
Let me know what you think.
--BTW, since a previous poster brought up Rubin Carter (and was obviously just as clueless on that case as on this one), it's worth mentioning that Carter's case is a nearly PERFECT parallel to Peltier's.
He, too, was guilty as sin. He was a violent, sadistic psychopath, and he absolutely DID kill those people in that bar in Paterson.
Stabbed a random guy in a park 25 times, as an 11-year-old, while robbing him --just for the hell of it-- and then made up an elaborate story that the guy was a pedophile.
He cleverly seized on the naivete and self-interest and 'white guilt' of lots of famous artists, and used them --as they used him-- to create a mythology even greater than that around Peltier.
Dylan and Denzel, I love you guys, but you committed awful crimes with the lies you propagated to the world about 'the Hurricane.'
If you want to devote yourself to the defense of wrongfully-imprisoned members of oppressed minorities,... GREAT. More power to you. Bravo.
But find people who are actually innocent of their charges; don't take scumbags like Peltier and Carter, and turn them into heroes.
It's disgraceful.
2. Peltier is not an Indian. He is Native American.
No, that would be Indian. How can West Indians be Native Americans when America was founded by Europeans, named after an Amerigo Vespucci, an Italian explorer? If they want to be cute about wording, they should call themselves the various Pre-American tribal people.
sp2 wrote:
It's a very valuable lesson on how easily-duped most people are --even smart and well-intentioned people.
(Especially when they're governed by powerful preconceptions.)
As you are governed by your powerful misconceptions, and not able to think for yourself, which tells me all that I need to know of your postings, as well as the governed official story of Leonard Peltier.
I don't know the politically correct term for this group, but in this video, the first three words from the narrator, who is certainly a proud member, are:Proud...Forgotten...Indianhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-tbOxlhvEBy the way, this video is the first advocacy piece that's caused me to change my mind on an issue (with the possible exception of the movie Dead Man Walking).
jksujhdhdjdh wrote:
2. Peltier is not an Indian. He is Native American.No, that would be Indian. How can West Indians be Native Americans when America was founded by Europeans, named after an Amerigo Vespucci, an Italian explorer? If they want to be cute about wording, they should call themselves the various Pre-American tribal people.
If he is not an Indian, then why was he a member of the American INDIAN Movement?
Why don't you enter the next race he's in with a "keep Leonard Peltier locked up" singlet and beat him? That'll show that Billy Nelson guy, grrr.
Don't take advice from the racist. Read this instead.
He might as well have worn a "Free Paul Spookler" shirt. Nobody knows who either one of them are with one difference. Peltier is a real person who only 5 people in the world know about and only 1 person cares and Spookler is a fictitious name.
Proud Indian wrote:
Don't take advice from the racist. Read this instead.
http://www.leonardpeltier.info/
The Case of Leonard Peltier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuDWBZi2odU"defense cases by ethnic cheerleading"
This is totally correct. People jump on the bandwagon with no effing idea of the facts, because a cause is 'cool' in some way. Never mind the fact this guy actually did kill people.
This made Billy Nelson look like a twit
Your entire rambling diatribe and the only thing you say regarding Peltier's guilt is this:
It is very likely that Peltier himself was the shooter of the two agents.
What a waste of your time and ours. The guy was there and shot at the agents as did several men. He's the only one serving time and he's serving a life sentence. It's injustice even if he's a scumbag. Next time pretend you're on Around the Horn and only say things with value and relevance.