2004 Marathon Trials

"I haven't heard if Josh is running yet, but I'm sure he could stroll to a sub 212 on that course."

Coxfan - I have nothing against Josh Cox, but I don't think that he's gonna be "strollin" a 2:12 anytime soon. He'll have a hard enough time running all out and getting that kind of time. My reason for this viewpoint - his results to date. This isn't meant as a rip on him as he was about 3 miles ahead of me at Chicago, but more of a rip on your prediction and the use of the word "stroll" as if 2:12 would be easy for him.

Tim Geldean

As soon as the shoe companies come calling all the athletes will leave Hansons. Unless big $$ are behind the Hansons they will cease to exist. I am sure they are nice enough guys but when it comes to coaching every big time athlete wants a big time coach. Salazar, Gags, Vinnie, Wetmore, Vigil and every other coach that you like to bash will all be coaching elite athletes long after the Hansons and their program is long gone and forgotten. Hansons are todays pet rock, they are just a fad.

Who will win the 2004 marathon trials, Ritz or Webb?

Hansons a fad? Sure, runners are joining only for there cool uniforms.

More like clubs and athletes have been duped by the Nike fad. Nike has been using its commercial cache and marketing power to attract athletes to its products and coaches and then appears to do little that is substantive for them.

I'm sure that Hanson's as a club and program is not perfect, but my god, they are trying to do what all clubs should be doing: putting runners first and assisting them develop competitively.

Which one of these is not like the others?

"Salazar, Gags, Vinnie, Wetmore, Vigil"

There are 4 "big time" coaches in that list and one guy who has never coached a champion and only coasts along on his athletic accomplishments. The Hansons are better coaches than Salazar, the proof is in the pudding.

Baker beat Verran By 4 seconds in his debut marathon. Baker will beat him by 2 minutes in his next marathon and 4 minutes in the next.

Now you are trying to build up the Hanson program. Does that mean that you have given up on trying to defend the guys on their coaching methods. I never doubted their love for the sport but do you think that they are some of the best coaches in the country?

Kramer I believe that you are in the program. If you are offered a spot in the Oregon Project, you would leave Hansons in a minute. Why isn't WEJO apart of the program? He has been looking for sponsorship for 2 years. Oh that's right he is an Ivy league graduate that recognizes that this is all just a fad. Three years from now the Hansons will be an answer to some obscure trivia question.

At that point, you could tell he was going to be leaving the Hansons when he had the opportunity. He didn't explicitly come out and say this is the exact reason he felt like he had to leave the Hansons but his decision seemed to be very heavily based on his feeling that he didn't have any training partners other than Verran with the Hansons and it was getting to the point that Verran was having trouble running with him. Based on that, I'd say it's a safe bet that he left the Hansons mostly because he felt he needed faster training partners to push him to new levels.

BTW: Chad was a sub-14 5k runner before he went to the Hansons. It's not like they turned a 14:30 5k runner into a 13:40 runner. His progression continued while running with them, that's it.

I can't wait to see Chad's debut. Even when he was focusing on the 5k and 10k, he was training like a marathoner. He's got the strength and determination to handle the distance. Of course, the marathon isn't a sure thing but I have a feeling he'll run real well. Whether that means he will win or not, we'll have to wait and see.

Kramer is not in the program, but I am. I wouldn't leave it for anything. I want to develop, so I choose Hansons. You don't become world class overnight. Progress is the results of time and pressure.

I still see there are lots of people in our own sport that can't look more than a year down the road.......

Hansons a fad? You are certainly entitiled to your opinion, but come back in several years and say it again and EVERYONE on this board will laugh in your face. Clint has been with us the longest, so let us look at his results: Well, it's easy to see that Clint has PR'd at the marathon the last 3 times out. New York (01), Boston (02) and Chicago (02). And if you don't call that progress then it's YOU that needs to get off the crack pipe.

Of course, it doesn't really matter what the results are, as long as the training is going as planned, then it's the Trials and Olympics that matter most. And it doesn't really matter what your opinion is either.......... you're not in the group.

Flat Air Sole

PS. Don't drink the bong water either.

PSS. I like Clint for the win at Birmingham as well. Go Box!!!!!

I also believe that Chad made the right decision to leave. He needed a change in scenery. But lets not blame it on his improvement or his training partners. Thats not fair.

1. Chad had incredible improvement while with Hansons

2. There are plenty of Hanson guys capable of trainig at Chads level.

Please Check tilastopaja.com for the real stats. Chad Johnson had run a 14:07 indoors and a 14:14 outdoors before joining hansons. While in the program for one year he dropped his indoor to 13:53 and his outdoor to 13:41. Pretty decent improvements.

After being a part of Oregon Project for for 6 months he raced his old hanson teammates in Vancouver. Chad dropped out of the 12k shortly after the 4th Hanson member went by him. Anyone can have a bad day. 2 months later they raced again at the 8k road championships in NY. Chad was beaten by Sell (23:01), Gibson (23:08), and Campbell (23:14). Chad finished in 23:15. Brinker was 23:17. My point is not that Chad isn't capable of beating all of these guys. My point is to say that he wouldn't have had people to train with is bull shit. I hope Chad runs sub 2:10 in his opener he is an incredible talent and I will always be a part of his fan club. I don't think that there is anyone in the Hansons program that doesn't want to see Chad reach all of his dreams.

Getting back to the initial question of the post, I'm going to try for my Trials qualifier at Chicago. Reasons include a solid race for me there this fall and the slew of guys who will beat me even if I run the A standard as opposed to the B.

As for the Hanson's v. Salazar debate, for my clarification to those deeming that Hanson's is a fad, could you provide some reasons? Even if some of Hanson's runners run wicked fast and receive big offers from Nike and the ilk, does that necessarily mean they'd leave the program. The guys seem (and by nature "seem" means this is a subjective statement) to think the Hansons are good coaches. From what I've heard, after his marriage, Verran bought a house that's spitting distance from the other two Hanson's houses so he could still train with the rest of the team. It seems to me that if a guy is willing to do that, start his family there, he must really like the program.

Concerning money vs. what I'll deem "program quality", runners seem to be less corrupted by the big money, which, for the most part, I don't think can be said for what has to be the majority of athletes in the big money sports (football, basketball, baseball and hockey). This is a sport where environment tends to matter a little more. Kevin Garnett can be nasty on a crappy team, and he'll receive the "appropriate" paycheck. Runner Joe likely will not be nasty if he trains with crappy runners, and he'll also receive the appropriate paycheck.

Both the Nike Oregon program and the Hanson's program deserve much applause for their hard work and committment to developing good runners.

Remember it is not so much about who is the absolute best, it is about the struggle and the effort.

Jason

Hanson program a fad?? Puhleeze... you MUST be in the know.

I'm not usually the betting type, but I'll put up some coin in a wager that in 2yrs, if there is a fad (trivia question) group, it will be the Nike Project. Of course, I wish all the runners well.

How many years do you require in distinguishing a successful club from a "fad"? Would Hnasons not be a fad if they were highlighted in Wired magazine?

You fellas have finally made it. You know that you are a successful coach when people on these boards start taking cheap shots at you. Vin sucks. Wetmore burns kids out. Vigil under produces in the marathon. Salazar is a druggie, and now the Hansons. Pretty good company guys, keep it up.