How does a second tier US runner become a 13:02.80 performer?

Hassan Mead is just the latest example of the dominance of Minnesota endurance athletes, but that's for another thread.

To address the question of the OP: Mead is actually a first rate talent, but one who was coached by Steve Plasencia in college. With very rare exception, Plas has been a terrible developer of talent. The better question would be, for a guy who's so obviously talented, why wasn't Mead much better in college (even given the injuries? The answer is coaching. In 19 of 20 cases, the MN system ruins good runners. Mead is one of the lucky few to survive unscathed.

Goucher Needles wrote:

Hassan Mead is just the latest example of the dominance of Minnesota endurance athletes, but that's for another thread.

To address the question of the OP: Mead is actually a first rate talent, but one who was coached by Steve Plasencia in college. With very rare exception, Plas has been a terrible developer of talent. The better question would be, for a guy who's so obviously talented, why wasn't Mead much better in college (even given the injuries? The answer is coaching. In 19 of 20 cases, the MN system ruins good runners. Mead is one of the lucky few to survive unscathed.

I don't think that the word "injury" accurately describes a collapsed freaking lung. He was still an 8-time All-American. I'm not sure how to assess Plansencia as a coach, but I believe Mead was on the same team with Ben Blankenship. So that's a 13:02 5k runner and a 3:52 miler. Seems decent to me. Hard to argue that Plasencia is ruining good runners.

4runner wrote:

Practice, practice, practice.

Also, he must have made it past the 10,000 hour threshold.

you should read the actual study and some others on this topic. running economy is not necessarily a meaningful variable. you also need to look at protocol, allometrics, muscle fiber qualities and BMI.

to think Kenyans have the same diet is a mistake also.

Practice^3 wrote:

4runner wrote:

Practice, practice, practice.

Also, he must have made it past the 10,000 hour threshold.

EXCELLENT point! WHen he was "second tier" he probably was only in the 9,500 hour range. But then when he hit the big 10,000.....WHAM....eh starts knocking the 13:00 door. Too bad there are no other thresholds (like 15000 or 20000) for him to pass. This might be it.

Obviousely he is very talented. The alarming thing is the astonishing number of US athletes running near the 13:00 zone. Isn't it funny how a half dozen moroccans running in the 12:55 zone needed a lot of epo yet a half dozen Americans running in the 13:00 zone is because of talent. Really, where did this sudden talent in our pool come from? Well , there are several elites hinting at wide spread use of questionalble medicine. Could there be some valididty to this or are they all jealous?

rojo wrote:

3) To the poster above, you seem to have forgot that Jager had surgery and missed a lot of time as well.

Ohhhhh, so close! Rojo almost wrote a complete post without a blunder. We might have to promote him to the Second Grade.

I would think that the near unlimited resources of Nike plays a roll in this group of Americans. I know Hassan personally, and I know with certainty that prior to last year he had not spent any significant time at altitude, nor had he trained for so long with no hiccups. Plaz is a great coach considering the situation at MN. If you know the culture at the U of MN, Big Ten Team Titles count for so much more than individual NCAA success. Look back and see how many individual Big Ten titles Hassan won against the quality at WI and Indiana at the time. Try doubling 10,5 against those beasts (jager, Ahmed, etc...) then having to come back again 2 weeks later and race hard again and you'd understand why he was not an NCAA champ. He helped the Gophers to at least 3 team titles at the Big ten level. Hassan is tier 1 by any definition both on the track and as a person.

...

This thread cracks me up.

1) A guy who was 4th at FL is a 2nd tier talent? Far from it.

2) Mead was 6th at NCAAs as a frosh? That's 2nd tier talent? Far from it.

Mead ran 13:28 at age 19. Rupp's pb at that age was 13:37.

3) To the poster above, you seem to have forgot that Jager had surgery and missed a lot of time as well.

Here is an interesting article on Jager:

http://algonquin.patch.com/groups/sports/p/algonquin-olympian-ready-for-london

-Rojo

PS. Mead's 5k progression

2008 13:44.30 - age 18

2009 13:28.45 - age 19

2011 13:45.68

2012 13:30.21

2013 13:11.80

2014 13:02.80

Yes, 4th or 5th at FL and 4th at NCAA IS the definition of "second" tier on the world stage.

Somebody here is missing the point, 4th in the NCAA is excellent (I would give up my left arm for that). However, 13:02 is CRAZY PHENOMENAL (only guys like Maree, Moorcroft... should be achieving these types of performances... PEDed Aouita was just a couple seconds faster than that. Aouita was crazy fast, crazy endurance, multiple, WC medalist...). Mead???

malmo wrote:

Durkin was a great college runner, multiple All-America, as well. ONE Olympic team (76)

Durkin actually did make TWO Olympic teams (76, 80). How did I miss that? I stand self-corrected!

As an Eastern African and a talented runner that had several health issues in college I can give him the benefit of the doubt. Actually Ben True is at least as suspicious but apparently he wasn't completely all devoted to running until 2 years ago. And that 13:14 he ran in horrible weather last year in New York was worth at least 13:08.

The last time I saw Hassan race he was beaten by Ahmed at the Big 10 5000 2 years ago soundly 13:44 to 13:50.

So its still unusual to me to see such a big drop in such a short time.

Maybe all he needed to do was to train for a year and a half non-stop without injury to break through that big. Like Ritzenhein when he ran 12:56 out of the blue coming down from the marathon.

the top runners today are racing and training in so much better conditions. You simply can't look at a 13:02 and compare that to a Sydney Maree who ran 13:01 in 1985. He was a 3:29 1500 runner and rarely raced 5000 and if he was competing today in this environment he certainly would have been 12:50 and also sub 27:00 if he moved up by age 30.

What is so good in today's environment vs the mid to late '80s?

I trained in the '80s and the environment was pretty good.

I really can't think of anything.

Altitude training, good shoes, good tracks... It was all there

]George Atlas wrote:

...

the top runners today are racing and training in so much better conditions. You simply can't look at a 13:02 and compare that to a Sydney Maree who ran 13:01 in 1985. He was a 3:29 1500 runner and rarely raced 5000 and if he was competing today in this environment he certainly would have been 12:50 and also sub 27:00 if he moved up by age 30.[/quote]

Setting up races in perfect conditions at Stanford with rabbits to hit those tougher A and B standards have become the main goal.

That didn't exist when I ran. You went to Penn or Mt. Sac and if you missed your qualifier you had a last chance at Northeastern or Oregon Twilight. And the standards were lower definitely in those days. I remember 1986 NCAA's where they had a 3:42.8 standard and only 9 runners qualified. And the 10,000 was 29:07 and only 8 runners qualified.

I still wonder how much smarter or harder runners can be working than they were in the 1980's when I ran. But they are definitely better now.

I suppose things should be more evolved in 30 years in anything.

Maybe its just a different mentality. Incredible to see a college runner at Columbia running 13:19 but there were literally no races that went that fast stateside in the 1980's outside of Prefontaine.

13:30 was a huge deal. I just can't imagine these kids are are trainng any harder or more devoted. Maybe they drink less beer and get more sleep than the runners in the 1980's/

What caused the collapsed run, and how did it heal, just with taking it easy for awhile?

You document every year up until 2012 and then leave out 2013 like it never happened. He ran 13:15 and 13:11 last year.

I think this is just another Farah-like case of Salazar allowing the talent that's always been there to emerge. Mead didn't compete until his junior year, but was an XC state champion in MN (not the deepest state, but definitely above average) and 4th in Footlocker Nationals as a senior, in his second year running. While his college career was very inconsistent with injury, he did run 13:44 as a 19 year old freshman. Rupp's PR, through the age of 19, was 13:37, if I'm not mistaken, so Mead demonstrated near Rupp-like ability. Dude is definitely not second tier.

Oh wait, IDK why I thought he ran for Salazar. In any case, the rest of my points still stand.

Goucher Needles wrote:

Hassan Mead is just the latest example of the dominance of Minnesota endurance athletes, but that's for another thread.

To address the question of the OP: Mead is actually a first rate talent, but one who was coached by Steve Plasencia in college. With very rare exception, Plas has been a terrible developer of talent. The better question would be, for a guy who's so obviously talented, why wasn't Mead much better in college (even given the injuries? The answer is coaching. In 19 of 20 cases, the MN system ruins good runners. Mead is one of the lucky few to survive unscathed.

Plasencia is credited on his wiki page with a 43.87 400M split and a 2:12 'thon. Holy crap, you can't let a guy like that coach.

Like you said 13:00 ain't what it used to be. Mead had his breakthrough and I am happy for him. Never medaling in NCAA is easy enough to accomplish.. Since the seventies the NCAA meet has been host of many world leads and records so to NOT medal in the NCAA is not an indication of anything. Way to go Mead..