Wejo, if you seriously think Ratcliff is clean then you can't be taken serious on anything.
Wejo, if you seriously think Ratcliff is clean then you can't be taken serious on anything.
oh please wrote:
No doubt. Paula's tweet actually makes me even more suspicious. It's the Lance Armstrong method. Rafael Palmerio testified before congress and then proceeded to get caught!
You know what makes Paula suspicious? 2:15:25, more than 3 mins faster than the now busted Liliya. Again, this is the same crap Armstrong tried to pull. He (and she) would like us to believe they are clean at the top, while everyone below gets busted. So you're saying the difference between Paula's "innate talent" is even more than 3 minutes better than any other female marathoner ever?
Keep in mind Paula's "high years" were also Armstrong's "high years", meaning I don't want to hear crap about EPO testing becoming available in the late 90s/2000. It obviously means nothing.
This is exactly right. I thank you for posting this.
But I'm afraid you're wasting your breath. Most people here just want to live in a fantasy world of their own creation.
ventolinoo^^^^^^
lets not name call now ,you fanny!!!
i am the person or sorry chump you mentioned
who keeps mentioning the ELEPHANT in the room when
it comes to sprinting and other sprint based events .
THAT ELEPHANT IS GET IT CORRECT NOW VENTO
IGF-1 LR3 ...most important peptide in sport since epo
could you please enlighten me to what is so obviously
happening in the sprints for past little while
and only going to get more and more obvious .
only one chump here ,that believes it is all so legit.
are you a sprinter and ever tried this , then you will
know exactly what i mean.
KMG365 wrote:
wejo wrote:. . . but Paula sure talks like a clean person.
Sheesh. What a numbnuts.
linford christie said drug cheats should be jailed
and wore a t-shirt saying 'DRUG FREE'
before he finally got busted..
not sayin anything about paula
but she spent a lot of time away in albuquerque and kenya
1) You should be happy to learn something from others.
2) You waste time responding to my post?
dopers protocal.
simples paula knowes all about ,lie and deny till the end .
as for mutai's 2.05 time in 2011 dirty out and out
gw501516 ,epo wont be getting you that time so easily.
too bad the brojos left Shobukhova off their drug poll - would have been intersting to see what they said. The closest parallel is Savinova, who 85% of us thought was dirty.
It will be fascinating to look back at the poll in 5 years and see who went down.
Grow a pair IAAF wrote:
IAAF need to grow a pair and actually something.
First, ban her for life. No discussion.
Second, fine her for all winnings she has ever made from athletics. No discussion.
Third, ban her coach for life plus fine him for all winings he has ever made from athletics. No discussion.
Fourth, ban her manager for life plus fine him/her for all winings they have ever made from athletics. No discussion.
Fith, fine all of her sponsors for about 2 million dollars each. No discussions.
Sixth, try find out from coach, athlete, and manager how they doped, which doctors they used and whether there were any other athletes involved. Use interrogation and torture methods if required, none of this sissy court-room rubbish.
Seventh, once the information from above is achieved, go after the other parties involved and apply the same force.
The doping problem in track and field would be cleared up VERY quickly if such methods were applied but for the moment, the sports governing bodies do not want to do anything about it.
calm down
The other guy! wrote:
As I pointed out, at least NYRR would not invite her - period.
Stop praising NYRR for their anti-doping. They are one of the few organizations who could afford to finance proper OOC testing for elites as well as the local subelites.
But they do NOTHING. Absolutely fu
James Driving wrote:
Wonder if Meb will get caught after last week.
Haters gotta hate
Paula didn't have any strange jumps in performance. From 1995 to 2004 her fastest and slowest 5000M seasonal best ranged from 14:29 to 14:51. That is remarkably consistent.
As for her marathon world record, it is 2:17:42 under current rules. That will be broken soon.
oh please wrote:
No doubt. Paula's tweet actually makes me even more suspicious. It's the Lance Armstrong method. Rafael Palmerio testified before congress and then proceeded to get caught!
You know what makes Paula suspicious? 2:15:25, more than 3 mins faster than the now busted Liliya. Again, this is the same crap Armstrong tried to pull. He (and she) would like us to believe they are clean at the top, while everyone below gets busted. So you're saying the difference between Paula's "innate talent" is even more than 3 minutes better than any other female marathoner ever?
Keep in mind Paula's "high years" were also Armstrong's "high years", meaning I don't want to hear crap about EPO testing becoming available in the late 90s/2000. It obviously means nothing.
Point out one time to me where Lance or Rafael ever celebrated a cheat getting caught. I don't think they ever did. They swore they never cheated but it's a different mindset.
Paula personally told me in 2002, "the only athlete you really know about (being clean) is yourself."
That's the mindset clean athletes have.
Do you think Deena cheated too?
Paula was made for the marathon. When I first met her in 2002 when I went and saw her physio, Robert and I made a lot of money going and betting on the London marathon for Paula to win. She was running 5:15-20 pace all the time and acting like it wasn't that fast.
Yes she's 3 minutes faster than anyone else. Yes she could have doped, but I personally don't think she did.
wejo wrote:
Do you think Deena cheated too?
YES!!
wejo wrote:
...
Point out one time to me where Lance or Rafael ever celebrated a cheat getting caught. I don't think they ever did. They swore they never cheated but it's a different mindset.
Paula personally told me in 2002, "the only athlete you really know about (being clean) is yourself."
That's the mindset clean athletes have.
Do you think Deena cheated too?
Paula was made for the marathon. When I first met her in 2002 when I went and saw her physio, Robert and I made a lot of money going and betting on the London marathon for Paula to win. She was running 5:15-20 pace all the time and acting like it wasn't that fast.
Yes she's 3 minutes faster than anyone else. Yes she could have doped, but I personally don't think she did.
I don't want to believe she did, but again, we've all been fooled before. Armstrong wrote books about how clean he was and how cancer allowed him to reshape his body from a classics rider to a grand tour rider, and how the misery of cancer helped him become mentally tougher to boot.
I suggest you look at the ending speech Mr Armstrong gave at the end of the 2004 Tour De France where he berated people for "not believing" he was clean.
There was absolutely no reason for Radcliffe to tweet what she did. It doesn't pass the smell test.
All world records / top performances have to be suspect, across the board and across sports.
I'd believe the current crop of Men's marathoners are "more clean" than Radcliffe, and here's why: It's become common to run 2:04, and by relative no bodies. The women's WR is still off the charts. No body is even capable of getting within 3 minutes of it (and you can bet it's not from lack of doping, case in point Liliya Shobukhova).
There is just no way that a clean elite athlete is going to be that much better than doped elites. For more than 10 years no less.
wejo wrote:
A few things.
1) I had heard the Shobukhova had tested positive and her pregnancy was a convenient excuse not to compete for a few years. I just searched all my emails and can't find who told me that. If you knew of this previously please email me
wejo@letsrun.com2) Clearly the word or suspicion was out. Paula's tweet "Lilya Shobukhova finally exposed as a drug cheat . Disqualified using blood passport ,results since 2009 annulled." even indicates people knew before today's announcement.
3) How/why did this take so long to be announced?
4) Paula's tweet also supports my belief that Paula is clean. Having paced her to her world record obviously I am biased but Paula sure talks like a clean person.
I have a lot of data to support Paula's WR as being clean, mainly the fact that she had a pedigree, progression, male pace makers and the fact that she did something that to this day, I don't think an other woman has done. Paula had a complete team and lifestyle totally & absolutely dedicated to one women running one distance. (I have defended Paula for years based on this.) With that said, Lilya coming up dirty and Paula's statements don't do anything to advance my opinion that Paula's performances were clean, in fact it has the slight opposite effect. There are several Afrcian women like Ndereba, Kiplagat(both), Chepkirui, Jeptoo and Keitany, etc., who can't come within 3 minutes of Paula's record. Add in the Dibaba & Defar, who have run substancially faster than Paula on the track and they probably won't come within 2-3 minute either and what you end up with is an incedible outlier.
I still think Paula was clean, but what she did is an anolmoly which is almost impossile not to look at with out a jundice eye and now I am at least open to the possibiliy that Paula was not perfect.
How was Paula "made for the marathon" when almost all of the top ten MALE performers are shorter than her and many of them weigh less?
Basically, what Wejo is saying is that elite male marathoners could stand to get a few inches taller and gain a few pounds.
not sayin paula was doped
but if you're looking for who the dopers are
who didn't get busted
you go to the very top of the historic all-time lists
and that's where you'll generally find them
it's not rocket science
that's how doping works
This thread is an interesting discussion but the bottom line to start eliminating drug use is to hand out a life time ban if the athlete is caught (for all sports). End of story. Can an athlete take a chance at say age 25 and if they are caught they have to go out and get a real job. This will never happen though because all of these sports including Major Marathons are big business, where ever big money is involved there is corruption and people will cheat and lie.
Some of these drug cheats are telling true lies, they actually believe their own lies. It makes it hard for sports fans to believe what is actually real and not drug enhanced.
broken arrow wrote:
This thread is an interesting discussion but the bottom line to start eliminating drug use is to hand out a life time ban if the athlete is caught (for all sports). End of story. Can an athlete take a chance at say age 25 and if they are caught they have to go out and get a real job. This will never happen though because all of these sports including Major Marathons are big business, where ever big money is involved there is corruption and people will cheat and lie.
Some of these drug cheats are telling true lies, they actually believe their own lies. It makes it hard for sports fans to believe what is actually real and not drug enhanced.
what are the actual arguments against lifetime bans? I'm not sure it's all about money.
Does Justin Gatlin make money for someone? Does Dwain Chambers? Are any extra butts put in seats because Gatlin or Chambers is running?
Is either of them even sponsored?
I think the reasons against lifetime bans are rooted more in idealism than dollars. The idea that people can learn from mistakes, etc...
But 2 years is too short - 4 years minimum it should be.
If Shobukova was doping, then so Radcliffe.
douglas burke wrote:
only radcliffe has run a faster marathon.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Athletisme/Actualites/Shobukhova-prend-deux-ans/460874