Official 2014 Carlsbad 5000 Race Discussion Thread

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Do you know the difference between in-competition and out-of-competition testing?

From your link:

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency's tally includes tests administered at races and out-of-competition tests, and includes tests of U.S. athletes administered by foreign testing bodies at the request of USADA.

From my link:

"IAAF Out-of Competition Testing Programme"

And before you start to count his competitions in 2013, I'm sure you'll remember that the multiple instances Rupp was tested during the World Championships in Moscow (more than twice) all fell under in-competition tests.

Jeff, we can take the top 5000 meter guy from Kenya from 2012 (Koech) and compare him to Rupp.

From your file:

IAAF out-of competition testing:

Koech 4+

Rupp 4+

Now, lets add the national doping control programs to that:

KADA (Kenyan anti-doping org) --No reliable testing done

You can read about the situation regrading KADA here:

Koech: 0 total tests

USADA testing:

Rupp: 17 total tests

So, from the numbers we have available from 2012,

Koech is tested 4+ times, while Rupp is tested 21+ times (4+ and 17)

This is the total of in and out of competition numbers available.

Do you see a discrepancy there?

Ever hear of sarcasm, dipshit.

retard alert wrote:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

'Borderline racist and negative'. Is that supposed to be a joke? Are you new here? You leave outright racist threads up all the time.

Some guy wrote something like that. I deleted it as it was so borderline racist and negative.

Bet he feels like a moron.

You are asking if one of the founders of LetsRun is new here?[/quote]

Read the page you linked to. The 4+ listed on the IAAF list is included in 17 total tests listed by USADA. Those 17 include all tests done domestically, as well as those conducted in Europe and at the Olympics by other organizations. It says it right there at the top.

From those two pages, all we know is that both of them had 4+ out of competition tests in 2012. We know the total number of tests Rupp had because USADA lists is, but we can only guess at the breakdown.

B-Mart rules.

Best range of any clean female runner in history.

one would sure hope, if nothing else for coach vigil's sake, that would suck to have your best athlete come up less than sparkling clean. I have to admit, I still have a 10-25% question on how she came from much less than stellar in college (flashes of brilliance, but nothing that would indicate current abilities) to where she is now. add to the equation her husband who has a less than sterling rep in certain parts. cross our fingers and hope, right?

Chef Gordon Ramzi wrote:

B-Mart rules.

Best range of any clean female runner in history.

You may need to read the whole page. I'll include the pertinent info...

"This search will also include test sessions conducted on U.S. athletes training internationally by other testing entities when the request for the test session was made by USADA".

Key words..."will also include" and "when the request is made"

Which means it is not necessarily included in the testing totals for Rupp...it's only included when a request is made by the USADA. It is entirely possible that none of the IAAF tests (the 4+) were included.

In the end, we can cancel out the 4+ tests for each of the athletes since those are the same, and the remainder, using the info that we do have is ...17 tests for one athlete, and 0 for the other.

It is what it is.

Also, shouldn't Diamond League winners be tested far more than Rupp?

However bad Carlos' reputation may be none of it hints into PEDs.

futbol fanatic wrote:

I have to admit, I still have a 10-25% question on how she came from much less than stellar in college (flashes of brilliance, but nothing that would indicate current abilities) to where she is now.

Answer: Irv Ray --> Joe Vigil

Anyone else notice how well Vigil's athlete in the men's race, Diego Estrada, ran?

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

Wow* wrote:

Super impressed with Diego! Courageous runner!

Amazing how folks think going out at a pace which you clearly cannot maintain is "courageous". A better word would be "foolish". And even that would be putting it politely.

I don't thing courageous is the right word, but it is impressive that he decided to try to hang with the big boys. Can't fault the guy for going after it. He said in the post race interview that he was also trying to take down the AR.

whataminute.. wrote:

Also, shouldn't Diamond League winners be tested far more than Rupp?

You don't know that he wasn't. He could have been tested 100 times that season. You're conflating the IAAF's out of competition tests figure of 4+ and acting as if that covers all the tests he had the whole season. He could have had 10 out of competition tests and 10 in competition tests. And of Rupp's total form the USADA website, we can't tell how many were at competitions and how many were not. We just don't know.

krunchberry wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

Amazing how folks think going out at a pace which you clearly cannot maintain is "courageous". A better word would be "foolish". And even that would be putting it politely.

I don't thing courageous is the right word, but it is impressive that he decided to try to hang with the big boys. Can't fault the guy for going after it. He said in the post race interview that he was also trying to take down the AR.

I have a lot of respect for Diego. And any other runner who can run a whole lot faster than I can. But if you go to the lead in races where you are in over your head over and over and over again only to die each time then shouldn't you learn? Crank up the training. If you can handle it then maybe you can handle a faster pace. But don't just keep trying the same thing over and over in a race thinking that 'one of these days...'

Jeff Wigand wrote:

You don't know that he wasn't. He could have been tested 100 times that season. You're conflating the IAAF's out of competition tests figure of 4+ and acting as if that covers all the tests he had the whole season. He could have had 10 out of competition tests and 10 in competition tests. And of Rupp's total form the USADA website, we can't tell how many were at competitions and how many were not. We just don't know.

Hence the problem. We just don't know how many times a world class East African athlete is tested compared to an American or European world class athlete. There's no supporting documentation. You only show a few tests from the IAAF, but there's nothing else. There's no national anti-doping programs there as there should be. What we do know for sure is guys like Rupp are tested 17 or even 24 times yearly in and out of competition by their national programs alone. The suspicion will and should continue until clearly disproven.