MARATHON TRAINING - PORTUGUESE STYLE

That´s not that we was a cyclist, that´s when he was engaged by that local team, he did think that´s to be a cyclist and not a runner (!), because the local team did a cycle team also. The same with Pinto´s first run. He did think that him and their friends they gonna do a soccer game - that´s the reason he took his football/soccer shoes and vests. That´s seems a joke but don´t.

Don´t you think that´s quite a miracle that he did Seul Olympics a few months later? But that shows also his enormous talent or potencial - without the need of drugs.

By the way - he did as Lopes - in contiunous runs or recover jogs (!) that´s very hard if not impossible to follow him. After a few minutes you are out. If you try to do 60min with him soon you will see that´s a good-sense decision to resume that to 30 minutes.

"Ther were lots of rumours and suspicious about EPO taking, I personnaly doubt that he was completly clean in the past, but i can´t say more than this - these are all doubts and suspicious, nothing more than it."

Qoute from Antonio posted at mb.com

One more qoute:

"Just to clarify one point. Do you think i believe Pinto is clear of Drugs? I don´t.

But two mounths ago, a Director of a rival team of Pinto, commenting the absence of Pinto at last world half marathon champ that Pinto say the reason is that he lost identity card and Passport so he can´t go there and compete (!?!?) this team Director goes to portuguese television saying just the same all portuguese runners say open mouth - we don´t believe Pinto is clean of drugs.

What happens? A court process against this Director, the Portuguese Federation came in defense of Pinto dignity, and they need to do a special (!?) surprise EPO test to Pinto to confirm that he was free.

But we still believe he take or had take something to do 2:06:35/27:12/13:01 and 3:37."

Yoiu are close to the true, but not all the true. We need to tell the things as they are notybas we loved that they would be.

Do you know what´s the main argument to most of the runners that in tha occasion did accuse that Pinto did EPO? Based in what? In the ignorant Jon Brown opinions that we did in a interview. And also in another idea, That Pinto´s drug test that London decide to do that´s not valid. The manager of the portugues Pinto´s team Maratona Clube de Portugal, show in the TV a copy of the Pinto´s London test.

That´s when the Director of the portuguese federation decide to put that people in court and i agree. Depite i doubt that Pinto that´s clean i can say such an accusation with no proves or idiot Jon Brown arguments.

For the other not so true fact, that´s Portuguese Drug Test Institute, leading by another old olympic runner Luis Horta

10000m in Moscow 80, that knowing the rummours about Pintoi, he decide to do the blood and uirine tests in that national champ - and not just to Pinto but to many other. Pinto that didn´t compete - due to an injury - they allow him to do the test the same, to prove that he wis noit missing that run because EPO positive. Finnaly i need to say that in that same period that that test was done - the Cycling road World champs they took place in Portugal - and the OCI used the same Institute laboratory - that has international credentials for doing all king of drugs tests - to test cycling competitions. So, as you see the test that´s not an obscure test, but a valid one.

In Sydney - that Pinto did a poor performance there as you know but since Pinto arrives in Sudney they did also a surprise test to Pinto. Negative also.

I don't believe that it is fair to conclude that somebody cheated, simply because they improved a lot. That's a small minded way to view things. There could be other explanations.

Wello wrote:

thats interesting about training above the threshold, its the opposite to what John Kellogg or Marius Bakken advocate.

that's not entirely true. i'm coached by jk and he'll have guys run stuff like 3 x 8 minutes (3 minutes r) and 2 x 4k (3-5 minutes r) at faster than 10k race pace. it's not suposed to be where you're tying up but it sure ain't in the comfort zone either. it's more like you've got the edge on and have to concentrate but it's controlled. so you're faster than that good threshold feeling but not hard enough or long enough to get you in real trouble. i'm out of college now and i don't thnk jk thinks its good to do stuff this hard with high school runners very often. while the hard stuff is important i feel i've improved most in the last year by slowing down most of my easy days and runnign more in the base period.

Antonio Cabral wrote:

by the way - he did as Lopes - in contiunous runs or recover jogs (!) that´s very hard if not impossible to follow him. After a few minutes you are out. If you try to do 60min with him soon you will see that´s a good-sense decision to resume that to 30 minutes.

so that means that Lopes also did his base/recovery runs at a fast pace?I know that there is variation everday and during a career but you wrote that Mamede always ran very slow like 4-4:30/km, so about what kind of pace are we talking in the case of Lopes?

Mr. Cabral;

Thank you for a very informative post. I have a couple of questions, 1) Do your runners do hill training to any great extent? Do you think it would be beneficial to replace the short reps at faster than race pace with 200-400m hill reps during the early stages of preparation? 2) Since you mentioned 3 specific workouts per week plus a long, that's 4 hard workouts in a week, which ones do you do on consecutive days? 3) I've heard many of the Kenyan runners run only 6 days per week with one day of complete rest, do you recommend this or is it necessary to train every day? 4) Do your runners do long runs when not in specific marathon training and if so how long?

Thank you for your time and expertise.

bump

I'll bump this one more time in the hope that Mr.Cabral will see this and respond.

Dan Moriarity

Excuse me, if this case happens once please send me a personal e-mail to remember me that i didn´t answer that questions.

1) Do your runners do hill training to any great extent? Do you think it would be beneficial to replace the short reps at faster than race pace with 200-400m hill reps during the early stages of preparation?

I frequently use hills reps, short distance/short duration (20sec to 60sec) high gradient with quite complete recover downhill (2:30 to 3:00) in most of the introductory/basic phase of every training plan. That depends of the runner, the whole training plan, and also what´s the target distanceevent. My main target with the hills that´s strenght and to run anaerobic without the need to use a fast pace (density). In the introductory phase of any training cycle you may shall train for the physilogic qualities that each event requires. In the basic period i train for the specifics - to be able further up to do specific workouts. Thus if i told you that i do 3 workouts in 10 days and that one of them that´s hills reps i´m saying the true about my training programme. Later on in the Specific period (cloer to the target race) usually i quit out hills from my programes, and i replace that by trcak speed. Now (in that later season or later phase) i´don´t train no more for the physilogic requirements but the training modulation goes to the Specifics for the distance event - thus the introduction of the race pace and my 1-2-3 system 1=race pace (or closer); 2=faster than race pace; 3=intenser runs but slower than race pace, that´s LTM - lactate training management

Thus a pratical example about hills for the marathon run for an experienced runner, not a beginner:

12 weeks to 6-8weeks before the marathon -

-once each 10 days a typical hills workout sessions are: 20min warmup + 7X20-30sec up hill max. pace w/3min down hill walk recover + 5 minutes easy run + 7X40sec max. pace w/3min down hill walk recover + 5 minutes easy run + 7X2min uphill in LT Pace w/3min down hill easy run + 10min easy cooldown. That´s an hard tough hill session for the marathon !

2) Since you mentioned 3 specific workouts per week plus a long, that's 4 hard workouts in a week, which ones do you do on consecutive days?

Look, a long session that ends with race pace that´s an hard workout session, so that´s 2 hard workouts in a week total, not 3+1. And also consider the hills as hard runs. But depending of the runner that´s better to use a 10 days cycle with 3 workouts in tha micro cycle.

The 2 days in between each 2 workouts, that´s 3 workouts in 10 days are to run aerobic runs extensively, singles or doubles. Eventually you speed up the pace in the end, but avoid tiredness if the focus that´s aerobics and recover.

3) I've heard many of the Kenyan runners run only 6 days per week with one day of complete rest, do you recommend this or is it necessary to train every day?

Once again it depends of your running profile, your past running history. But if ther´s no rest days (i think that rest days even in a irregular peridisation that´s find, but if because adrenaline you want to train (addicted to train) or if you are affraid to miss your shape condition by a day rest - then do a very easy day with a very easy run 6 to 8 min mile pace.

4) Do your runners do long runs when not in specific marathon training and if so how long?

Never ! No more than 90min in the weekends (saturday or sunday) and not them all. Even Alberto Chaiça he never does more than 90min runs before to start a marathon plan (some 12 weeks before).

In part, the reason that´s because in between marathons they are very engage with a full competition schedule in short run competitions - road, cross and trcak also.

But i train some runners that love to do long runs the day after the competitions, and i train (some foreign runners mostly ! ) that are 800m-1500m-5000m specialists that love to do 2 hours every weekend, and what can i do. I let them do, you can´t change the runners "nature".

I guess I´m not an authoritarian coach !

good stuff

good stuff indeed

Thanks Antonio for a great post. I have always wondered how

Carlos and some of the other great runners there trained.

Amazing talent in Portugal. Cheers from Canada

Antonio, Your style is very simple, practical, and refreshing. Do you have any thoughts on Jack Daniels approach to the marathon?

Mr. Cabral:

Yes, great stuff indeed. I do have about 3-months worth of Carlos Lopes' training somewhere. I'm a HUGE fan of his.

In regards to your observation on Japanese runners, very interesting. As a Japanese myself, and a subscriber to one of Japanese running magazine still, living in the US, I'm lucky to get quite a bit of insight. They do alright and, in my opinion, the biggest reason for that would be (1)corporate support system, (2)their mentality to marathoning, (3)type of training they do. It's interesting that their men really don't do as well as women and, in the case like that as East Germans once were, you become suspicious of chemical dependency. Let me tell you; most Japanese coaches and athletes would be scared of needles! As far as I can see (unless things have changed since my corporate coaching days), the gap between practical side (coach/athlete) and medical side are quite large. In other words, there's a room for more improvement.

Finishing 5th and 6th, as a team, is not too bad but they certainly viewed it as a failure. Aburaya certainly did! His first words; "6th again!" In my opinion, they need to work more on tactics and training based on tactics; i.e., change of pace. Inubushi was trying to become a 3-minute-per-kilometer specialist and he did; breaking 2:07; but that in a way limited him to counter surges and survive. One more thing to add to the list of reasons above; their recent success of women's Olympics, one other reason would be simulation to actual race situation including race tactics and course (i.e.; Athens).

To view finishing 5th and 6th as a failure would surely develop even stronger team in teh future. I enjoyed that article about Ritz in RWD but just praising being "different from ordinary US runner's thinking" so much, I thought we are still long way off.

I would however disagree with Mr. Cabral's comment about Japanese specializing marathons too young. I think there are people who are naturally suited to marathon and we need to identify that and train them young (even 22 or 23). Shibui of Japan is a great example. I believe she was only 22 when she ran the then-fastest debut of 2:23. Too many runners waited too long till they can't compete a decent race on track before they move on to marathon and they missed out becoming a great marathon runner. I believe Frank Shorter was "only" 24 when he won the gold medal??? I do agree, however, that way too many runners in Japan automatically look to marathons (because it is a glamour event there), that they missed out decent middle distance performances. Marty Liquori couldn't believe that the guy who beat him in a 1500m race in Japan in 1977 held the national record till very recently!

I love these international information exchange. Arthur Lydiard would have loved to join in... Thanks again, Mr. Cabral.

Thanks Nobby or your insight.

In my opinion there 2 strong characteristic of the Japanese people - among others - that are discipline and organisation. And I think that most of japaneese success – economic, social etc that´s done under these 2 premises.

To have a strict discipline you need to obey and integration. To obey to a rule, to obey to a system (a structure of support), to obey to a company (the Japanese are really good in managing and lines of production), to obey to a superior (a father, a teacher, a coach), to obey to a master, to obey to a code (as samurai they did). This goes so deep that I imagine that most of them are “neo-slaves” an in a new kind of accept obedience.

Second they are very concern with integration. Most of them they focus their life meaning to get the highest position as possible in their status, social status, professional status.

You try to study a maximum, you try to invest in your career a maximum, you live for your company, your work hard for your company, the success of your company is your own despite you may have a subaltern position in your company, you retire in your company, you died and gos the the cemetery and your ashes goes to the company !

Both that characteristics, as anything else have the reverse coin. What´s the reverse of discipline?. You don´t think about alternatives, you aren´t original, creative. You were trained just to be efficient in a define context. You don´t use your imagination , you aren´t inventive !

When you fail – that´s easy to fail you see when you don´t care of our individuality needs…- then is as you say – they want to make Haraki as did the the japaneese marathon runner after the Toquio Olympics, what a shame be passed in the last miles. I imagine that for Aburaya that´s a shame and a defeat and a failure to loose for the Portuguese Alberto Chaica in the last 400m in the 2003 Paris world Champs, but then he did the revenge in Athens. Well done ! I advise Chaica but that´s well done by Aburaya !

2003 Paris World Champs

1 Gharib Jaouad MAR 2:08:31

2 Rey Julio ESP 2:08:38

3 Baldini Stefano ITA 2:09:14

4 Chaíça Alberto POR 2:09:25 (PB)

5 Aburaya Shigeru JPN 2:09:26 (SB)

2004 Athens olympic Games

1 Baldini Stefano ITA 2:10:55

2 Keflezighi Mebrahtom USA 2:11:29 (SB)

3 de Lima Vanderlei BRA 2:12:11

4 Brown Jon GBR 2:12:26 (SB)

5 Aburaya Shigeru JPN 2:13:11

6 Suwa Toshinari JPN 2:13:24

7 Wainaina Eric KEN 2:13:30

8 Chaíça Alberto POR 2:14:17

9 Di Cecco Alberico ITA 2:14:34

10 Tergat Paul KEN 2:14:45

11 Gharib Jaouad MAR 2:15:12

Once a saw a interview about one of the best portuguese classic musicians – a solo pianist. He gives lessons of piano to top piano performers. He travels all around the world to teach and advise the young pianist to improve the piano performance – they want to play piano better.

He told me that the Japanese they work really hard in piano training. Sometimes 12-14 hours daily since they are kids. They want to have success in their career so they train piano technique and piano execution the time. But when they go to piano world contests they rarely win, and they have a weakness in their performances. Why, because you need to obey and be in the rule to a certain extend. When you did assimilate the CONTAINS of a certain technique, of a certain discipline, of a certain structure, you need to broke out if you want to keep improving, and they rarely know. They obey to the coaches as slaves, they have no individuality really. Everything is done as cook book – you go the formula, thus you follow that formula strictly. But Americans, like no one else, they promote individuality – the ego, the self made man, the land of opportunities, and in Europe we try to make the bridge in this two systems I guess we have the power tradition for one side, they heavy weight of academic concepts, but we have also individual and freedom concepts. I think that Japanese and some asian people, their freedom is simply follow the regime, the system and run in a single mind direction.

That´s curious that´s I read a statistic data that said that the Portuguese we have the world highest number of registered patents of inventions and the Japanese the did a minimum.

Now transfer that for the running distance. You are strong, you have great discipline, but you did learn from someone else that teaches you about training – as Lydiard for example. Then you follow Lyidiard “a la carte” by the book, you don´t change nothing, that´s a fix structure to obey.

First let me tell you a few true stories that involves the Japanese and their attitude in sevarl fields in this cases running activity – one of them I saw with my eyes. I hope that made you understand my opinion about Japanese people because I think that the stories and very symbolic of I try to say to you.

Once, some years ago, a Portuguese female team - Braga - did compete in Ekiden – the marathon by relays you see. Each year that´s in done in Japanese soil – that´s world champ by relays. Well, the Braga Portuguese team that includes some great female runners at that time, among them Albertina Dias, world cross winner and 2 second places, and also Manuela Machado, 2 times marathon winner in world champs. The team is coach by a woman also. That female coach she did smoke and uses red lipsticks and paint his finger nails. The team got a credential from the Portuguese Federation. Whe they arrive to Japan and get in contact with the organisation, they don´t want to admit the Portuguese female coach ! Why? They say that a coach of female runners can´t be a female – too soft and no discipline and the more with that aspect, smoking all the time – this is impossible. Well finnaly the team wins the world title and they got to admit that it her that coaches them.

Econd story is with that tall runner Toshinari and also with “the son of the wind” the olympic winner Takahashi Naoko. They both come to my country to compete in a 5000m international track competition – St Antonio´s Meeting. They did train in my usual local track before that meeting as they arrive long before.

They go to the track for a workout. There are 2 more men for athlete. We taugh that´s one coach for each runner and eventually one member of the team, one team leader. But don´t they are al, coaches ! But the strange part for me, is that the head coach speak very low and secretive with the second coach – and the runner don´t heard what the hard coach said to the second coach, and then after a some seconds the second coach call the runner to say and repeat what the head coach said some seconds ago. Then I realise that in no occasion the head coach speaks or talk directly with the runner – I saw them in several occasions, in the hotel room, in competition, before the competition, after the competition….

The head coach uses a “serious face and a serious mood” he looks around him for us the Portuguese with a suspicious attitude !

You see, that´s a so hierarchic and system in obedience and discipline. This is what´s unthinkable in my country - when a coach goes to the track for a workout with a bunch of runners, even if that´s present the second coach – they usually were saying jokes ones to each other the coach and the runners and they live in a familiar-friendship attitude al the time.

Now about what you say – the proper age to the try the marathon and also in what age we need to improve our speed (since a teenager and not later) and if you combine both wit what you say – that the Japanese they need to train a bit more in faster paces than the marathon pace event – that will allows them to run better marathon performances because speed is the important one talent (not event quality) in all distance events – including the marathon – thus if you enter quickly in your career in a marathon programme you will never be able to be a faster runner in short distances and you will have some speed lackness.

Tink this, if you aren´t able to run 5000m in 15:00 how you will be able to run a marathon in 3minutes/Kilo pace (15:.00 for each 5000m split?) Impossible ! Thus if you are a 12:30 runner that´s easier to run a 2:04 than if you are a 13:30. This doesn´t mean that because you are a 12:30 you get that, no, you need to train extensively (mileage) and also train carbo depletion.

I can say the same of 10000m performances. The faster runner in short distances is the one that have more chances to be the best marathon runner. If that´s not possible to focus in a marathon training and train for short distances improvement, then if you “jump” or move on to the marathon very young in age, you can have good performances but you will never get your potential out. The runners that you say that with 23 years old they do the marathon with success, they have no more an improvement margin in that event. Of course that depends a lot of the each individual activity profile. A African runner that do a strong activity since young kid he can run a good marathon younger than a caucasian runner, and eventually an asian runner also. Actually we see more professionalism than in the past, people start train by diary training as teenagers so I admit that you start younger than in the past, but don´t be radical. A marathon needs some seasons of training and also needs running maturity. I´ve seen lots of top performers that they did start in track events or short distances and that later on they did good marathons, but the opposite that´s very rare.

Finnaly let me say that you are in the right direction if you love share experiences with other running atitudes and if you are curious to know and undrestand diffrent training methods. That´s what i also do.

Antonio,

Many thanks for the information you have provided. What kind of rest do your athletes take after running a marathon? I am hoping to run on the track after running Barcelona in March this year and was wondering what kind of break would be advisable after running a marathon.

It depends of what runner is, what´s the plan, how many tough that´s the marathon.

Sometimes, top class runners they are engaged in lots of competitions, so they don´t rest what i would want.

An example. Alberto Chaiça did an hard plan from early May to Athens. then he did 3 weeks of complete rest - no activity at all just RRR - Rest, Recover, Relax.

Usually we have a 2 weeks of light runs of short duration and just once a day, even for those that run twice a day, some 40-50min min. Then the second period 1-2 more weeks consider a come back, that progressively you get back to your training routine. That´s intersting that you rest physical as phychological - thus you need runs with short duration and don´t think to run long runs.

One vital detail i guess, that´s to be out of competition at least 3 weeks. In no case you may compete in a run the week after a marathon - that´s a large range that you get a serious injury.