Farah vs Mutai NYC 1/2

He'd had to run the 3 400's before that much faster than he would have wanted to, to close the gap, unlike whenever he's controlled a 5k or 10k track race previously as Bekele took the control away from him. Stands to reason he wouldn't be able to run the final 400 as hard.

Nothing to do with endurance, entirely good/bad tactics.

oskmsk wrote:

Once and Future wrote:

The fact that he got as close as he did after letting such a large gap open at the end of a half is testament to a fair degree of endurance I'd say.

You say wrong. It has nothing to do with the size of the gap. That's irrelevant. What's relevant is the speed that he was running. As others have said, his final 400 was only 59 or whatever. That shows that his endurance was worse than the previous year. If his endurance was really the same, then he would have been close to his usual fast finish.

He didn't kick a freaking half-marathon in 53 and this is supposed to show he lacks endurance????

I will have mutai DQ'd at the end of the race and farah will be your overall winner.

Iz mutai actually posting on dis thread

Maybe with the chilly weather, the race will not be sooo fast........maybe farah does have a chance.

Whhhhaat!?

Why does Mo so secretive about his training in Kenya. He was ducking questions left right and centre in a recent interview. I cant stand NOP

No one breaks 60, winning time 60:45 for Farah.

Once and Future wrote:

He'd had to run the 3 400's before that much faster than he would have wanted to, to close the gap, unlike whenever he's controlled a 5k or 10k track race previously as Bekele took the control away from him. Stands to reason he wouldn't be able to run the final 400 as hard.

Nothing to do with endurance, entirely good/bad tactics.

False. In 5ks and 10ks, he's run the previous 3 (or more) laps much faster and still managed to run a fast final 400. So no it does not stand to reason. You're wrong here so give it up.

You even disagree with yourself. You say that running the 3 laps removed his kick but then you say it has nothing to do with endurance. If it had nothing to do with endurance then the speed of the 3 laps wouldn't have had an effect.

Ceiling Expert wrote:

He didn't kick a freaking half-marathon in 53 and this is supposed to show he lacks endurance????

When you become Reading Comprehension Expert, then you will understand.

G Mutai wrote:

Well said sir!

Is this really Mutai?

If so, I advice you to take a 10 mile run at 5:00 min/mile pace before the race starts, if you do this you will run 57:26.

can it really be a "decrease in endurance" when 2 months prior he was doing the training to run freaking 3:28. maybe another month of HM-specific prep and Mo blows KBs doors off.

Read that earlier in the day. Still makes me laugh

i'm really hoping Mutai, mev and the rest of the guy will kick hard from the start and go fast because Mo Farah cant and will not keep up with fast pace race

Mo will get dropped somewhere around 13km mark and he will finish the race in about 1 hour 30 minues lol

remember the key is a fast honest race from start to finish

Mo will beg Mutai for mercy

Bekele picked it up just slightly at the end with about 30m to go when Mo was totally gassed.

He ran the last 400 slow because he had been hammering like mad to try and catch Bekele. You expect someone to blast 54 after making up a 30+m gap in less than a mile? He still ran 57-58 for the last 400 which isn't awful.

Here is the concept: Bekele made a quick move, and got a free 30+m on Farah then kept the pace sustained. Farah was able to make up those 30m of ground on Bekele. Bekele took the even pace route, Farah the aggressive route. Even pace always expends less energy, so we do know that Farah could have gone with Bekele's acceleration on the downhill.

What we don't know is if Farah had gone with Bekele, could KB have cranked it up with 800 to go and gapped Farah. I personally think yes Bekele was going to win regardless BUT we don't know for certain because Farah had to spend tons of energy to get back to Bekele. Had he run evenly with Bekele he may have had energy left to match as Bekele tried to pulled away

That's also why I said Bekele won easy, in PART, because of his move. He might have won easy without it, but he also might have had to work really hard for the win. We just don't know.

oskmsk wrote:

Once and Future wrote:

He'd had to run the 3 400's before that much faster than he would have wanted to, to close the gap, unlike whenever he's controlled a 5k or 10k track race previously as Bekele took the control away from him. Stands to reason he wouldn't be able to run the final 400 as hard.

Nothing to do with endurance, entirely good/bad tactics.

False. In 5ks and 10ks, he's run the previous 3 (or more) laps much faster and still managed to run a fast final 400. So no it does not stand to reason. You're wrong here so give it up.

You even disagree with yourself. You say that running the 3 laps removed his kick but then you say it has nothing to do with endurance. If it had nothing to do with endurance then the speed of the 3 laps wouldn't have had an effect.

Track v rainy road. Half marathon versus 5k/10k. You can't just say "Farah has done it in 5k, he should have been able to do it here", it's a different, much longer, slower race.

Another difference you gloss over is that in those 5k's and 10k's he has basically been jogging to the bell, this race was a good honest effort all the way until the end. Just from it being half marathon we wouldn't expect quite as great of a kick, and factor in the fact it was a solid pace and Farah was already working hard the last few laps and it's easy for me to understand why he ran 58s and not 54s.

thecooze609 wrote:

http://running.competitor.com/2013/02/news/kenyans-dominate-rak-half-marathon_65920

Mutai was to run London 2 months later.....he ran 58:58

the iaaf report of this race :

my post at the time

"Ethiopian Feyisa Lelisa led the men’s field out with a 50m advantage when passing 4km in a conservative 12:25"

the above iaaf quote must be a misprint, i assume it means 11'25, which is a crawl at 60'12 pace

i can't believe it also means the 3 kenyans were also 50m behind at 4k, which probably means ~ 11'34 at 4k

if so, it means they ran the last 17.0975k at pace of

58'24

& only ran real fast from 12k in !!!"

what this illustrates is that the 3 kenyans, including geoffey were probably in 1/2M wr shape - meaning hard run from gun & not crawling to 4k in 11'25 & still 50m behind wabbit & they still only really started hard running from 12k point

this is a long-winded way of saying geoffey last year was in 1/2M wr shape

( & being the strong man of that field ( or any field ! ), probably wouda benefited most from flat-out from the gun )

looking at hx of race :

geb has record at 59'24 ( 2"04'26 same year & also his 1/2M pb is not much quicker at 58'55 ) & some kenyan ran 59'39 in '12

it does indicate a pretty quick course if conditions are good, maybe 1/2 minute off a potential wr course like lisboa, holland or dubai

geoffey if he is in top shape must be looking for a time close to 59-flat

the course is quickish & he has no excuses if he fails to crush mo into the dirt

fwiw, this endless nonsense about last year's mo v kennster debate needs to be put to rest

they were closely matched in a tactical race & mo had done very little training for 1/2M, having just won double gold in moscow & his prior 3'28 shows he wasn't doing the heavy mileage for a 1/2M - he coudn't as he had only ~ 3/52 between moscow & that 1/2M

anyhows, i don't usually do estimates for road races as you can't really factor in the uneven course compared to a perfectly flat-track, normally adding 30 - 60s to track estimate for a quick course

well, mo was in 3'28 shape last year & i figure his 10k was somewhere between 26'30 - 26'40

for a track 1/2M :

3'28 / 26'40 ->59'13

3'28 / 26'35 ->58'59

3'28 / 26'30 ->58'44

add 30 - 60s to those for a road & best you get is that mo had potential of maybe 59-low/mid last year & by implication kennster likely no better

neither were going to be any world-beaters over 1/2M last year

i have serious doubts about mo's chances

he probably was close to a minute behind geoffey if they'd run on a fast course flat out for 1/2M

that minute is lot to make up in a matter of months...

Mo was trying his damnedest and Bekele had his trademark smirk on his face...on it, then off it, letting Mo catch up just enough and then squeaking ahead for the win. He was playing with Mo. I like Mo and think he's a great British athlete but he is a nobody when it comes to people like Bekele and Mutai.