Tim Hutchings tweets that new women's 13.1 WRecord by Florence Kiplagat "might be dodgy"

An actual doctor wrote:If he were going to blood dope, I presume he would use HIS OWN BLOOD, so he wouldn't pick up anything nasty from himself, would he?

no

infusing own blood came in '90s-cyclists

toxoplasmosis guys - stoopid

non-chump

back in late-'70s/early-'80s, the only concern was Hep-B

take a chance, infuse a pint of blood, you get off 800 :

1.0 - 1.5

ventolin^3 wrote:

[

no

infusing own blood came in '90s-cyclists

toxoplasmosis guys - stoopid

non-chump

back in late-'70s/early-'80s, the only concern was Hep-B

take a chance, infuse a pint of blood, you get off 800 :

1.0 - 1.5

Detection of autologous blood transfusions in athletes: a historical perspective.

Mørkeberg J.

Author information

Abstract

Autologous blood transfusions (ABTs) has been used by athletes for approximately 4 decades to enhance their performance. Although the method was prohibited by the International Olympic Committee in the mid 1980s, no direct detection method has yet been developed and implemented by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).

4 decades would mean autologous blood transfusions were around for a good while before Coe rose to WR times. Not saying that to try to convince anyone that he used them - just pointing out that you were wrong.

Plus, isn't autologous blood doping what Viren was accused of? 1972 and 1976 were well before the 90s.

trollism wrote:

Saying he saw an athlete inject EPO into her ass (when he didn't or has no proof that he did) is libel. Saying that XXX athlete might be doped, is not.

Tim Hutching is a dope.

ventolin^3 wrote:

infusing own blood came in '90s-cyclists

You are just wrong here. Cova, Antibo, quite a few of the Finnish runners were all reinfusing their own blood in the 70s and 80s. Not to mention the cyclists.

I don't expect Ventolin to ever admit he is wrong.

ventolin^3 wrote:

An actual doctor wrote:

Dear Venty,

Yes, I posted from MedScape, an extremely reputable website written by medical specialists for doctors generally. I actually understood what I read, though. So I figured out that the chance of Coe being exposed to toxo through the environment was sufficiently high to make the assertion he got it from a blood transfusion to fanciful.

you figured wrong

an adult athlete in western world can't acquire toxoplasmosis from oral ingestion enough to wreck him for that much for '83

Wrong. Martina Navratilova and half the Royal Ballet contracted it on a tour of China. All needed medication and were out of action for some time. Or is it common practice for ballet dancers to undergo blood transfusions?

Getting back to the original subject, apparently the Barcelona course hasn't been measured by AIMS or the IAAF. That doesn't necessarily mean it's short, and it will of course be measured as part of the ratification process. If that's all Tim is basing his tweet on, then that's pretty lame. He should know better.

Tim is okay as a commentator, but he does often say some uninformed things. Outside of the distance events, he's actually pretty ignorant and has very old-school views.

FWIW, I think the HM record was a weak one and it doesn't surprise me that Florence Kiplagat broke it by as much as she did. She's hugely under-rated, despite having a marathon PB of 2:19:44, the Kenyan 10,000m record (30:11) and being a world cross and world half marathon champion.

Firstly , Hutching's credentials as a runner of very high calibre are beyond question.

Secondly , I,m not sure what this has to do with a person's right to post an opinion on this site. If this was restricted only to people who have run as fast as Hutchings this site would be very short of contributors!!

Thirdly , the curse of doping is that every exceptional performance now comes under suspicion - in many cases very unfairly. No performance in itself can be seen as suspicious (no matter how good it may be). Suspicion arises because of lots of circumstantial "evidence" ; membership of a training group which has had several positives ; close links with doctors etc who have a proven record of supplying PEDs ; the athlete hanvig got away with previous instances of cheating on some technicality or other etc. etc. How many of these apply in this case I don't know.

To the Limit wrote:

just sayin wrote:

the british are very crafty when it comes to doping

they don't get caught much

Caught 'much' !

Please tell me of any elite British middle or distance runner caught doping in last 30 years?

They have been subjected to out of season and out of competition testing since the early 80's, prior to the IAAF doing the same in 1989.

Please tell me what the doping protocol has been for Ethiopian testing of their own athletes in the past 25 years?

that was my point..

the british covert dopers are craftier than your average doper

Oh right! So they're happy to sacrifice their field eventers and world class sprinters (Christie, Chambers, Jenkins, Redmond, etc) for taking PEDS, but they cover up for all the middle and distance guys, even those who are 2nd tier?

Yeah, makes perfect sense. Lol.

To the Limit wrote:

Oh right! So they're happy to sacrifice their field eventers and world class sprinters (Christie, Chambers, Jenkins, Redmond, etc) for taking PEDS, but they cover up for all the middle and distance guys, even those who are 2nd tier?

Yeah, makes perfect sense. Lol.

lol yourself

UK athletics tried to get linford christie and others off the hook

ventolin^3 wrote:

An actual doctor wrote:If he were going to blood dope, I presume he would use HIS OWN BLOOD, so he wouldn't pick up anything nasty from himself, would he?

no

infusing own blood came in '90s-cyclists

toxoplasmosis guys - stoopid

non-chump

back in late-'70s/early-'80s, the only concern was Hep-B

take a chance, infuse a pint of blood, you get off 800 :

1.0 - 1.5

I have never seen you correct yourself when you are wrong or admit it, so it probably won't matter. However, for somebody who think they know EVERYTHING about distance running, you don't know this.

Martti Vainio drew his own blood while on steroids, stored it, and took it later on two or more occasions. He tested positive twice for steroids(once at Rotterdam in the Spring and once at 84 Olympics). He has detailed what happened and what he did. I am not sure I believe the whole story from him, but I do believe that it was his own blood that he injected.

Also, several American cyclists in the '84 Olympics admitted to blood-doping with their own blood. It was common knowledge back then ... and now. This is also documented.

As a doctor, you should know that it is MUCH safer (for many reasons) to use your own blood. For that reason, when there is a choice, people do. Of course, there are a lot of stupid people out there. Also, if you use other people's blood, you don't go through the period of poor performance when you draw your own.

lord sir newbold rumored to estimate a vampire too

lord sir bastion newbold rumored to be a vampire too

Deanouk wrote:Wrong. Martina Navratilova and half the Royal Ballet contracted it on a tour of China. All needed medication and were out of action for some time. Or is it common practice for ballet dancers to undergo blood transfusions?

not too bright i see

navratilova was very likely a doper, being from czech & in sport with no testing at all back then

she likely also had a bad transfusion

the ballet dancers case is laughable !

it's one report, & how on earth did they diagnose toxo in a 3rd world healthcare system as china was back then when coe in a 1st world system required weeks to be diagnosed ???

it's very likely they got that chinese diagnosis wrong

ventolin^3 wrote:

not too bright i see

navratilova was very likely a doper, being from czech & in sport with no testing at all back then

she likely also had a bad transfusion

the ballet dancers case is laughable !

it's one report, & how on earth did they diagnose toxo in a 3rd world healthcare system as china was back then when coe in a 1st world system required weeks to be diagnosed ???

it's very likely they got that chinese diagnosis wrong

So the Finns didn't use autologous blood transfusions then?

Why would Coe use someone elses blood when it's more simple to just use his own? Back then was it possible to just walk into a blood bank and pick up a couple of bags if you asked nicely?

LetsRun.com wrote:

Interesting tweet by Tim Hutchings

Tim Hutchings tweeted:

Tim Hutchings ‏@TimHutchings1 6h

Was very sceptical of women's "new world record" for Half Mar wen I heard 38 sec improvement. Now hearing it might be dodgy. You surprised?

Could we have a repeat of NYC from 1981 when the course came up short for Alberto Salazar?

Does anyone have any insight?

We all know what it means; drugs. Which is a staple of the top Africans, with their current ability to avoid testing by claiming to be in remote villages and other b.s. should someone show up demanding a spot test.

trollism wrote:Back then was it possible to just walk into a blood bank and pick up a couple of bags if you asked nicely?

yes

if you went to any private italian/spanish/mediterranean medical centre

no problem whatsoever

coupla hundred bucks & you'd get a professor of haematology to do the transfusion himself !

ventolin^3 wrote:

Deanouk wrote:Wrong. Martina Navratilova and half the Royal Ballet contracted it on a tour of China. All needed medication and were out of action for some time. Or is it common practice for ballet dancers to undergo blood transfusions?

not too bright i see

navratilova was very likely a doper, being from czech & in sport with no testing at all back then

she likely also had a bad transfusion

the ballet dancers case is laughable !

it's one report, & how on earth did they diagnose toxo in a 3rd world healthcare system as china was back then when coe in a 1st world system required weeks to be diagnosed ???

it's very likely they got that chinese diagnosis wrong

But brighter than you I see.

The ballet troupe were diagnosed once back in the UK, and this occurred several years after 1983.

If you were my GP I'd report you for incompetence.

Copw;l wrote:

He actually doesn't have some good insights into what is going on and the poster was right, looks like he couldn't win gold in his career outside of mud.

Cowardly statement from Hutchings, bordering on racism.

But thankfully YOU are here ...you know, the person who hasn't won anything at an international level under ANY conditions... To give us the right and proper information because YOU know what IS going on at the top level of the sport. What a ridiculous statement you made!