Galen finished post AR workout with 4:01.6

you're not worthy worm wrote:

Sure, but Bill didn't have Al doing that??? So we've evolved that much that after running a distance faster than any American ever has before, pushing to the limits...then let's do a workout??? When he gets completely worn out or worse, injured, don't ask why.

LM wrote:

I can't recall, but I believe Salazar has said he feels there is some advantage to a workout just post race.

He has definitely said though that the race is a mere 8 min effort, and really in most any other workout you wouldn't do only 8 min of volume, so he does more stuff to make it a "full" training session. He tends to pair longer, aerobic stuff with a shorter race and vice versa

I don't think it's just Al Sal's guys anymore. At the UW Indoor Preview it wasn't just Hasay and Rowbury doing a post-race workout. It was also Alan Webb, Kim Conley, that Oiselle chick who won, and the Brooks Beasts. Even some of my elite, non-professional teammates do post-race workouts.

It's just that Al Sal's guys are always the ones doing really difficult, fast, and impressive post-race workouts.

r-c s has it exactly right. And not everyone at the top level does this, and I don't know anyone before Salazar started it with his runners who did so. Irrespective of whether anyone else was doing it, Salazar recognized its worth. But in addition to what others have said, physiologically there's particularly great value in having gone to the well, and then having a hard workout. What I'd be interested in knowing is what the rationale is for the different workouts: after Rupp's 5000 it was 800s/400s; after Hasay's and Cain's mile it was a tempo run outside, but after Cain's 1000 it was 400s/200s (or something like that).

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

3200 at vVO2 isn't all that much of a workout, although it will hinder any workout over the next couple of days.

Salazar is very smart to have his athletes do workouts post-race. There is still more to give that day, but the next would be a write-off.

LM wrote:

adsfasfads wrote:

I don't really get why Galen need to do a workout post-race, especially if it's a PR two-mile (and a record to boot). Didn't he run hard enough in the race? Now, maybe he has some incredible recovery capabilities, but I dunno.

I can't recall, but I believe Salazar has said he feels there is some advantage to a workout just post race.

He has definitely said though that the race is a mere 8 min effort, and really in most any other workout you wouldn't do only 8 min of volume, so he does more stuff to make it a "full" training session. He tends to pair longer, aerobic stuff with a shorter race and vice versa

Also in some interview he said it's better to tack on a workout post race than wait a couple days and do the same workout -- more recovery before the next race.

The question is not what he does after the track meet. The question really is what is he doing the week following the big work out and race?

Does anyone know? Or is it some top-secret Alberto Salazar training?

Could be completely wrong but there might not be any rationale as far as what workout after what specific race. It may just be whatever workout is up next in the rotation or what is felt like is needed the most at that time.

Also my opinion on the post race workouts is they probably figure since he's a 10K runner and when he is in the biggest phase of 10K training he is obviously doing tempos and intervals that total a pretty high volume. So that just racing 2 miles is kind of a waste of a day and depending on your meet schedule you may not be able to fit that workout in accordingly without putting it too close to either this meet or next meet. For example Rather just have 1 workout between this weekend and next weekend and have 3 easy days in between. Or if you didn't do this workout after meet you'd be working out again in 2 days, then again in 2 days and then racing in 2 days.

Montesquieu wrote:

And not everyone at the top level does this, and I don't know anyone before Salazar started it with his runners who did so.

That's because you haven't been paying attention. People at the top have been doing this for as long as I can recall. In recent pre-salazar era, McDougal I think was known to do workouts before or after races.

Not a paid subscriber wrote:

The question is not what he does after the track meet. The question really is what is he doing the week following the big work out and race?

Does anyone know? Or is it some top-secret Alberto Salazar training?

Probably putting his legs in a $1300 pair of compression socks

xenonscreams wrote:

Not a paid subscriber wrote:

The question is not what he does after the track meet. The question really is what is he doing the week following the big work out and race?

Does anyone know? Or is it some top-secret Alberto Salazar training?

Probably putting his legs in a $1300 pair of compression socks

That's not what one puts in a pair of compression socks.

the deuce wrote:

xenonscreams wrote:

Probably putting his legs in a $1300 pair of compression socks

That's not what one puts in a pair of compression socks.

Probably taking a dump in a $1300 pair of compression socks*

Does Schumacher's group workout after races? I've not seen it. Does Wetmore's group (Simpson, Coburn, Nelson)? I've not seen it. Does Cook's/Ponsonby's group? I've not seen it? Does OTC (Rowland) do it? I've not seen it. Does Vigil (Brenda Martinez) do it? I've not seen it. Maybe you've been around longer than I have. The first meets I went to I watched Lindgren, Ryun, Van Nelson, and Tracy Smith, so maybe not. In any case, I'd appreciate it if anyone has any specific knowledge that the above groups (which supply almost all of our middle/long distance national team members) almost always workout following a race.

sk wrote:

Montesquieu wrote:

And not everyone at the top level does this, and I don't know anyone before Salazar started it with his runners who did so.

That's because you haven't been paying attention. People at the top have been doing this for as long as I can recall. In recent pre-salazar era, McDougal I think was known to do workouts before or after races.

you're not worthy worm wrote:

Sure, but Bill didn't have Al doing that??? So we've evolved that much that after running a distance faster than any American ever has before, pushing to the limits...then let's do a workout??? When he gets completely worn out or worse, injured, don't ask why.

LM wrote:

I can't recall, but I believe Salazar has said he feels there is some advantage to a workout just post race.

He has definitely said though that the race is a mere 8 min effort, and really in most any other workout you wouldn't do only 8 min of volume, so he does more stuff to make it a "full" training session. He tends to pair longer, aerobic stuff with a shorter race and vice versa

What makes you think Alberto did what Dellinger prescribed?

It's been well documented by Alberto himself that Alberto supplemented (over supplemented) the prescribed regimen that Dellinger laid out.

You need to figure, that at this point Alberto has read every thing he could get his hands on about different training methods over the past 30 years.

He's got a pretty good record of keeping Rupp injury free. Salazar is nothing if not detail oriented. I'm sure every ache or pain or hot spot is well noted in Rupp's training logs and that his physio is on top of it as well.

It also wise to consider that Salazar has coached this athlete for over a decade, and brought him along slow, built him up to this.

Do we know anything about what those groups do?

A lot of people around here point out NOP as being shifty and secretive but I think we've seen more of their workouts on Flotrack than any other group.

And to sort of address the why question:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250010-2013-BU-Terrier-Invitational/video/688534-WOWRupp-Post-Mile-Tempo

Makes it a well-rounded workout, puts it further away from the next race, he probably won't even feel this race tomorrow, keeps races from disrupting training schedule.

There are plenty of reasons they do this type of post-race workout

We're thy full miles?

Not really sure how you "don't even feel this race tomorrow". You just ran faster than any American. Ever. You just put your body through something it has never done before. It sure as hell is going to feel it. I've seen some incredible performances first hand and talked with these athletes later, and more often than not, when they reach a level that they have never achieved before, they are dead afterwards. And especially a few days later as well.

There would be no incredible workouts happening immediately afterwards.

That's why NOP seems "shifty".

Hardloper wrote:

Maybe you should be learning from them, not teaching them???

I'm scheduling with Dr. Brown right now.

I saw the live feed of the workout. After the 4:01 he sat down and started taking his spikes off and was laughing about something. So, 8:07 2 mile. 20 minutes later, 4x1 mile at 4:19 average with about 3 mins rest in between. Then 1 mile at 4:01.6 and joyous laughter about 1 minute later.

Drugs.

LM wrote:

I can't recall, but I believe Salazar has said he feels there is some advantage to a workout just post race.

I would think a good deal of it is a confidence booster for Galen and fair warning for competitors. We've seen this a number of times now and although I'm sure there's physiological benefit in it, the benefits are more than just that.

cbenson4 wrote:

I saw the live feed of the workout. After the 4:01 he sat down and started taking his spikes off and was laughing about something. So, 8:07 2 mile. 20 minutes later, 4x1 mile at 4:19 average with about 3 mins rest in between. Then 1 mile at 4:01.6 and joyous laughter about 1 minute later.

Drugs.

This ^

cbenson4 wrote:

I saw the live feed of the workout. After the 4:01 he sat down and started taking his spikes off and was laughing about something. So, 8:07 2 mile. 20 minutes later, 4x1 mile at 4:19 average with about 3 mins rest in between. Then 1 mile at 4:01.6 and joyous laughter about 1 minute later.

Drugs.

I laugh, therefore I PED?

Never have I seen such a compelling argument to drugs as this.