Also when you run, I thought your hands/arms should not cross the mid-line point on your body.
I noticed Mary's did early in the video.
Here is a question:
Why has Al Sal spent his life telling people what run to do today instead of getting a proper job? It's because he, like all coaches, is not intelligent enough to work in the real world. Bear this in mind when listening to anything a coach says.
fenderperry wrote:
Also when you run, I thought your hands/arms should not cross the mid-line point on your body.
I noticed Mary's did early in the video.
Says who?
Excellent thread. Great comments on how and why to correct minor form flaws.
I admit that I have broken letsrun protocol by actually watching the tape. That said, here's what I saw.
Salazar appears to be teaching his athletes to use their arms to drive more effectively. At 6:13 and 7:44 he tells Cam and Cain respectively, "Hands behind your hips." Cam was looking choppy (short arm swings) before the command and opened up nicely on the final stretch. Cain already was looking pretty good, but as a coach, he wanted her to dig for that last bit of drive with her arms.
We don't really know what Salazar saw on the first comment (2:13 or so) because we see Cain on the backstretch and he shouts as she goes by on the front stretch. Her form seems to break down a tiny bit on the corners, so maybe he saw something there.
If you don't use your arms correctly in training, you can't expect them to give you optimal drive in a race.
SMJO wrote:
fenderperry wrote:Also when you run, I thought your hands/arms should not cross the mid-line point on your body.
I noticed Mary's did early in the video.
Says who?
I have read it in different running books. If your rotate too much it reduces forward momentum.
I am sure if you did a search you would find this advice in many running journals.
fenderperry wrote:
SMJO wrote:Says who?
I have read it in different running books. If your rotate too much it reduces forward momentum.
I am sure if you did a search you would find this advice in many running journals.
That doesn't mean it is right, it is just a theory. Arms crossing the center does not mean the body has to be rotating.
If the arms have to cross the midline to balance out body discrepancies then it isn't a problem.
SMJO wrote:
fenderperry wrote:I have read it in different running books. If your rotate too much it reduces forward momentum.
I am sure if you did a search you would find this advice in many running journals.
That doesn't mean it is right, it is just a theory. Arms crossing the center does not mean the body has to be rotating.
If the arms have to cross the midline to balance out body discrepancies then it isn't a problem.
Thanks for the reply, I would rather be a balanced runner.
Anyone know if she's still wearing that equestrian posture brace?
See Carlos Lopes 1985 world XC championship u tube
Note arm carriage and arms driving back behind his hips.
Salazar "Hands behind your hips ".
"/▶ Carlos Lopes - World Cross Country Champion, Lisbon, 1985 & Olympic Marathon Champion, LA 1984 - Y.webarchive
SMJO wrote:
Salazar should be able to tell at a glance why Cain runs like that and realize that she CAN'T change it.
I swear he has no concept of body shape.
Like many coaches, great or not, maybe he can't personalise training to suit different athletes. He has one way to succeed or it fails.
Stop being an armchair quarterback and come out here to Boston and watch Cam and Galen live and in person, so you can see how different their skeletal make-up is... two completely different dudes, with Cam even having so much more muscle mass than Galen.
Must be nice sitting at home with the heater on and pretending to know things.
Cam has more muscle mass, they have very similar skeletal structure.
Sorry your mom won't even let you have a heater in the basement.
Keenan Win wrote:
Her elbow is the symptom, her neck and shoulders are the cause. I'm actually less impressed with AS's methodology here...he isn't digging in to the root causes.
This would be my take. Salazar knows perfect form is great but not every body is capable individuals have their own optimum best form. While you should drill great technique always it needs to be personalised, the right tweeks for the right athletes. E.g. Paula' head bob. She found trying to correct it was counter productive and so used it in her running.
Cam and Galen do not have similar skeletal structure. If you are arguing since they are male and human, you win, but they are completely different body types. Sorry that you don't have a mom, must be tough.
Since even a blind man can tell how different their hip heights, shoulder widths, and leg lengths are, including torso length, here are some pics. I think you are confused on who Cam Levins is... he is not Centro (the other guy Rupp trains with) -
Cam Levins,
Galen Rupp,
NOP-E wrote:
Here is a question:
Why has Al Sal spent his life telling people what run to do today instead of getting a proper job? It's because he, like all coaches, is not intelligent enough to work in the real world. Bear this in mind when listening to anything a coach says.
Well, he was given a diploma of sorts at clown college in eugene. Sso we have to assume that he is as intelligent as LaGarret Blount.
I would like to point out that Nike has a lab that tests athletes running efficiency with professional biomechanists or w/e they are called. They do imaging and tests that can show what could be improved. Salazar might not know himself, but he sure as hell isn't splurting out nonsense. Salazar is a great coach, but he also has experts in every field that he can get input from.
Voel wrote:
Cam and Galen do not have similar skeletal structure. If you are arguing since they are male and human, you win, but they are completely different body types. Sorry that you don't have a mom, must be tough.
No, their body type is classified as the same going by the accepted definition of types.
Obviously their specific measurements aren't going to match as if they are clones but they are still very much the same type.
Runner85 wrote:
I would like to point out that Nike has a lab that tests athletes running efficiency with professional biomechanists or w/e they are called. They do imaging and tests that can show what could be improved. Salazar might not know himself, but he sure as hell isn't splurting out nonsense. Salazar is a great coach, but he also has experts in every field that he can get input from.
None of that means anything though.
When a form change takes more energy, then it is less efficient and less economical, no matter what their pretty pictures show.
"Running is not ice skating. It is not necessary to smile and make a wonderful impression on the judges." -- Zatopeck
if you don't know the basis of the instruction (which i'm sure al & cam have discussed in detail), then of course it's going to be confusing. criticism of the verbal cue when you don't even know what the cue is supposed to trigger/remind Cam to do? wtf?
J.R. wrote:
Likewise, Cam Levins' form is already pretty good at the end of 400s, yet Salazar was yelling at him to get his hands back, whatever that means.
I think his instructions were more confusing than anything else, and look at his wild arm swings when he's trying to show them what to do.