Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or "

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  • Mike in Va
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 12:50pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    Surf,

    You are correct. The diagnosis exam with Dr. UM is free. Personally I would take advantage of her expertise with this injury if she is coming to your home state Mike in Denver. Then you can go from there if you want to find a US doc to work on the injury. Based on my research, Dr. UM is much less expensive that any US based doctor and she is the best. Insurance hasn't helped many of us with this injury, so it really isn't in play for most of us on this board. Dr. UM's fees are in multiple posts on this board.

    Mike in Va
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 1:12pm CDT
    re: Mike in Denver
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    Mike in Denver,

    To answer your question about non-surgical success stories, I've compiled a few such stories, as follows:

    Post by SND
    http://g.imagehost.org/0971/SND_Post_84.gif

    Post by RunDoctor
    http://g.imagehost.org/0422/RunDoctor_59.gif

    Post at GoalieStore
    http://g.imagehost.org/0591/GoalieStore_01.gif

    Posts/email by Tennis player
    http://g.imagehost.org/0481/TennisPlayerSuccess.gif

    Surf
  • Mike in Denver
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 1:26pm CDT
    re: Mike in Va
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    Mike,

    Thanks for the input. I will look at the thread for costs and see if there is any way to set up an appointment. I really appreciate it.

    Mike in Denver
  • Mike in Denver
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 1:28pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    Surf,

    You are so helpful. Thanks you very much. I will look at these posts later. I really appreciate your insight and knowledge. I have spoken with some friends of mine who have degrees in sports medicine and they don't know squat about sports hernias. You know much more than they know.

    Thanks again and I will keep you informed about my progress.

    Mike in Denver
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 1:51pm CDT
    re: MeLLoDraMa
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    Mike in Denver,
    Take everything I say with a grain of salt. My understanding of sports hernia is certainly erroneous, and it changes every day. If we all put our heads together, we can eventually, as Den says, even discover a practical formula for non-surgical cure via rehab.

    MeLLoDraMa,
    You mentioned the anti-inflammatories. What kind are they? How long might you have to take them?

    Surf
  • JCsportsman
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 2:10pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    Hockey Player.....whens your surgery with Meyers?...Mine is July 15th

    I read the posts about the PT stuff ...I did a ton of different PT's.......a lot of stuff improved things but it never completely went away....There were a lot of times I thought I was on may way to recovery then would go backwards...then would almost feel Like I retore something..then would get better and on and on until it became everyday chronic pain after 5 years......No PT will heal a good tendon tear....I have a vertical tear in my rectus and my adductor tendon is tron/shredded right in the middle......Im sure it constantly goes thru a senario of scarring up then breaking apart and getting weaker every time....and now its to the point of tendonosis which is degeneration of the tendon...no choice but surgery and believe me I tried it all including expensive PRP Prolotherapy Injections...
  • MeLLoDraMa
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 2:41pm CDT
    re: Mike in Denver
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    Mike in Denver,

    I've read one safe way to self assess a SH is no improvement in groin symptoms after 4-6 weeks of rest. Based on your post, it is likely you have a SH, though you need to visit a SH specialist in order for proper diagnosis.

    As for fixing it w/ PT, I personally don't think it is possible based on both experience and some research of the injury itself. A SH involves muscle tears that don't heal themselves. My guess is a muscle sprain that began to cause SH related pains could be overcome, but a ripped muscle, I've been medically advised, can only be repaired surgically.
  • Mike in Va
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 2:50pm CDT
    re: MeLLoDraMa
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    Mello,

    Did you head back to Munich the day of the Surgery or did you stay the night in Starnburg?

    Mike in Va
  • Den
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 3:29pm CDT
    re: Mike in Denver
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    Mike in Denver,

    If you don't go see Dr. U.M., please make sure you find someone who understands what a sports hernia is and the intricacies of it. I'm only repeating myself because I went to a family physician first, and as soon as I mentioned sports hernia, I was sent to an inguinal hernia surgeon. I just don't want you to make the same mistake, if you do in fact have a sports hernia. I almost wish they would remove the word hernia and replace it with something else... I'm sure athletic pubalgia isn't as catchy in the sports world. An actual inguinal hernia is much different in nature than a sports hernia when we are talking about a bulge vs. muscle tear. They just happen to be in the same region. Personally, I'd like to rename it hell's groin to avoid any confusion.
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 3:51pm CDT
    re: MeLLoDraMa
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    MeLLoDraMa,

    Keep in mind I'm talking through my hat here. My understanding is this. The upper abdomen (six pack) is a large, powerful muscle, the rectus abdominis. The lower abdomen, on the other hand, is a more tendonous structure which both (a) eventually connects the said rectus abdominis to the pubic bone and (b) also acts as a steel tank or container floor for your intestines, etc.

    The lower abdomen is I'm guessing, like a thin flat red muscle sandwiched between two thin but very tough white layers of tendonous, fascia-like material. It is the inside or rear (posterior) thin white tendonous layer that gets the cursed tear of sports hernia, I think, that is sewn up by Dr. Muschaweck and Dr. Meyers.

    Muscle tissues in all animals, I think, actually heal very, very fast compared to tendons. Muscle tissue gets torn quite often in sports, I think, but is no big deal. We all pull a muscle here and there. They begin repairing themselves immediately, even making progress overnight. And they continue to repair themselves even during physical activity. The "adductor release" done by Dr. Meyers, I think, is simply a slicing of the adductor muscle with the scalpel without even sewing it up.

    Also picture someone stabbed by a knife in the leg, or the hero shot in the shoulder by a gun. Those muscle wounds heal themselves up without any suturing. The doc removes the bullet with whiskey, and he's done.

    Tendons also repair themselves, but it's a different molecular process and it takes much longer, and requires to be not be disturbed too much. Even a totally snapped achilles tendon will often repair itself if protected and given a lot of time. The two ends will find each other. But suturing it is very easy, so that's what they do.

    I've probably got something wrong here, but it's good to discuss these things, and influence each other.

    Does it feel good to be home, Mello? You accomplished a lot in one week. A good example for us all.

    Surf
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:10pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    If it were the front (anterior) thin white tendonous layer, then it would be much easier to suture up the tear because it would be much more accessible to the surgeon.

    I think part of Dr. Muschaweck's success is due to the fact that she has perfected a technique of getting to that posterior layer from the side somehow, to do her suturing, I think, so as to do less trauma during surgery, resulting in quicker recovery.

    Surf
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:12pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    That's why I was wondering about the location and shape of your incision.

    Surf
  • Albert
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:15pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    Surf-

    In a perfect world and in a vaccum i would tend to agree, but while the body is waiting to heal in many of us the other compensatory muscles. ligaments and structures become comprimised. Ask JC? He started off with a simple AP and now he has hip, SI joint, low back problems. Myself as well. Waves as well.

    The idea is to get the compartment in a neutral state so these comprimised structures are allowed to heal. I would venture to guess that my labral tears were not there before, nor my plantar fasciatis nor my tilted pelvis. All this is compensatory. I would sleep on 1 hip for an hour until i awoke in pain and then flipped over to do the other side. So think of the pubic joint in AP as unstable and this is the "dresser drawer" theory I was talking about. Each time you compensate the tendons, ligaments on the opposing sides become looser.

    I am at day 19 today and I shot hoops today and jogged up and down the court. I only shot while standing still and did not jump. I also did 1 hour on the elliptical. I also did 3 sets of 20 adduction, abduction, extension and flexion. I am also walking backwards as well. I am able to stretch my groin in all directions and do lunges for the 1st time in 4.5 years. I still have a little tenderness if i set indian style with feet together and press down on knees.

    My NMT i went to today could not believe how supple i am. I complained that the other side of my back is sore today. I think this is the compensatory thing because the last year the left (opposite side) bothered me on and off.

    I ordered my Core X system today and i also start my egoscue excercises tonight. I could not be more pleased. All of my lower leg pressure/pain is gone and that was my biggest complaint. I have no adductor pain or soreness. Minimal RA pain unless overstretched. The scar area is coming way down with swelling. In fact he was able to directly massage the scar and RA today for the first time.

    I am not returning to work until mid June because i want to get as stable as possible. My body did a lot of unraveling before surgery. I am also down 11 pounds since surgery.

    Surf,

    I think (in fact i know) you need to get a diagnosis. Then you can decide to rehab it or not. Why speculate without the facts? You would not do that with anything else in your life? You would not try to fix the fuel pump in your engine if you knew the block was cracked....


    Just get it done man. Quit the experiments until you get the facts. Look at all the guys here who have been down that road. The guys who waited the longest have the longest rehab. I still ache, but my ache is a picnic compared to the excrutiating hellish stomach, groin and leg pain. Don't let it go. The docs are there. If i knew what you know at this stage of my injury I would not have lost 250k in salary and 88k out of pocket on therapies. I know i got worse and worse. You have the knowledge. Get the exam and quit posting until you do. You are wasting your time
  • Albert
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:19pm CDT
    re: Albert
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    If anyone wants to see the incision I can e-mail you pics of day 3 and now day 19.

    Not trying to be gross but give those an idea of what is involved. Also remember my scar and incision was twice+ as long as most of his. He has shrunk considerably but i believe he was trying to examine the hip also.

    [email protected]
  • Den
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:42pm CDT
    re: Albert
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    I realize most of you are probably going to have a different surgery than I had (mesh repair with Dr. Hoadley), but I'm keeping a pretty detailed daily journal/log in Excel if anyone is interested in seeing it a some point...hopefully after I heal this dreaded thing! It pretty much includes every exercise, supplement, food that I ate etc. Probably a little overboard, but I thought I would do it for kicks.
  • Surf
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 4:57pm CDT
    re: Albert
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    Albert,

    Yes, I'm trying right now to arrange an ultrasound/examination by Dr. Muschaweck in July, her next visit to USA.

    Your progress is amazing. Of all of us, I think you were the worst injured. It must be like coming back from the dead.

    Den,
    Information about the progress you make over the next 2 months will be very valuable to all of us. It seems to me your results are very good so far.

    Surf
  • MeLLoDraMa
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 5:21pm CDT
    re: Mike in Va
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    I stayed the extra night in Starnburg. I didn't see UM for post op until almost 1800 and it just didn't make sense to bail, especially considering I didn't think I could find a place for enough less than 100e to make the trip worth it.
  • Mike in Denver
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 6:14pm CDT
    re: Den
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    Thanks for the info. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's called a "hernia" when it is a tear. I realize both GP's I saw were not "experts", but checking the inguinal canal is not extremely hard. Both GP's said there was no bulging. But there was pain in the groin when pressure was applied. I have spoken with four friends of mine who have had inguinal hernias and they all say that the bulge was present and not painful. It was bothersome, didn't hurt, and they were only worried about it progressing to strangulation or worse. None of their symptoms were the same as mine. All of them continued to work out, run and train with no pain at all. They don't believe I have a hernia because they all had little to no pain. The pain I have goes from a dull ache to full blown pain where I feel like someone kicked me in the balls. It settles down with rest and ibuprofen. But it is always there. Hard to get comfortable sitting down. Can't walk, jog, or bike without some level of discomfort. This really sucks.

    I am looking at all the options all the posters have kindly replied to me with. You all have been much more helpful than my GP's were.

    Mike in Denver
  • Den
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 6:43pm CDT
    re: Mike in Denver
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    Mike in Denver,


    When I went to see Dr. Hoadley, he was able to tell in 15 seconds whether or not I had an inguinal hernia. Now, I already knew that I didn't have one because I had a laparoscopy. But we went through the motions again. I'm really thin -- so it is easy to tell. I'm not sure what kind of shape you are in, but an experienced doctor could easily tell if you have an inguinal hernia unless you are extremely overweight, making it more difficult to determine.

    But as you mentioned, I know a few people who had inguinal hernias and they didn't have the kind of pain we are talking about. I sneezed one day and got a sharp pain in my left testicle. By the weekend, I had a dull ache in my groin and I couldn't sprint anymore. From there it progressively got worse as I tried to play two more soccer games with the injury. I believe the injury occurred when I was doing kicking/strengthening exercises with my left leg. The force and twisting of kicking the ball likely was the beginning of the injury although I never felt it at the time.
  • Albert
    registered
    10 years ago 05/26/2009 8:08pm CDT
    re: Surf
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    Surf-

    Great to hear!

    You will have peace of mind and enough information to make a decision
    Surf wrote:

    Albert,

    Yes, I'm trying right now to arrange an ultrasound/examination by Dr. Muschaweck in July, her next visit to USA.

    Your progress is amazing. Of all of us, I think you were the worst injured. It must be like coming back from the dead.

    Den,
    Information about the progress you make over the next 2 months will be very valuable to all of us. It seems to me your results are very good so far.

    Surf