Michael Johnson: Best Range Ever From 100M - 400M, but could he break 4:00/mile? YES!!!!!

The side-effects of his drug use were devastating:

http://swolf88.deviantart.com/art/Admiral-Ackbar-121671867

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/i73BVsOEg_E/13th+IAAF+World+Athletics+Championships+Daegu/0B2JjtrUaxg/Michael+Johnson

rtfgrtf wrote:

A: He wasn't running 3 mile tempos in 16:30.

B: Saying Johnson could run a 4:00 mile is like saying a 4:00 miler could break 21 in the 200. It's not happening.

W. Mitty wrote:

Coe came close. I believe he ran 21.x (21.7 ?) in the 200m.

A: When and where did he run 21.7 and...

B: 21.7 is different from sub 21.

WAS he not the agent of a certain Wariner .

again his times very much to do with constant use of

3rd generation epo MICERA .

but at least for wariner clearly didnt or couldnt roid up

very much .

regardless of steroids these 400m and 400mh wr times

not possible without epo or some form of blood doping

like MENNEA was supposed to of used as aid to his wr

on top of the roids obviously ,as example.

possible for steroids to increase hematocrit to heights

nearer of epo would get but very rare to have such receptive kidneys , and both records occur at same timeline

as for current 200m w.r time again, not possible and due very much to enhancement of nervous system due to THE LIGHTHNESS regardless of other factors like height ,roids .

ask the current high jumpers .

was johnson protected?

how come he got away when the rest got busted?

I don't know about sub-4, but I can never take seriously those who claim MJ/Bolt couldn't even break 5 for a mile.

sub-5?

MJ, maybe.

Bolt, not a chance.

MJ never got busted because he trusted absolutely nobody, so there are no good sources of leaks. Functional paranoia.

lol yeah, remember mj said he wanted to be an architect

if there was ever a control freak, it is an architect

I remember my senior year of H.S. in 2004, Xavier Carter (http://www.usatf.org/Athlete-Bios/Archive-Bios/Xavier-Carter.aspx) was running consistent 45s for 400m and thought he could beat the top 5 distance guys in the area for 800m. I think he only ran the 100m that meet, so he was pretty fresh when he faced of against myself and a couple others who had just got done running the 1600. He went out in about 53/54 and ended up running a ~2:10, which was good enough to get smoked in the last 150 by a few mediocre 1600/3200 guys. The physiological differences are too great for any world-class sprinter to break 4:00.

Yes, this was purely anecdotal, but it reminded me of a similar debate that H.S. kids resolved pretty quickly.

Sun Salute To MJ96 wrote:

If you put a gun to his head in '96, I still think Michael Johnson could have broke 4:00 in the mile based upon Clyde Hart's training philosophy and assumption that's how he was actually training Michael.

No chance. I recall an interview with him when he was asked if he thought he could break the world record in the 800. He laughed and said that his training was such that he could run a fast 350 and that momentum would take him through 400.

Just out of curiosity, how are some posters so sure MJ doped? Were there failed drug tests or other positive evidence of this, or are you speculating on drug use solely based on the times he ran? I've always thought of him as clean and a great ambassador of the sport.

BU wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how are some posters so sure MJ doped?

The progressions.

The times.

The consistency.

The huge, ripped roided-up physique (http://www.mir-la.com/uploads/posts/2013-12/1386794634_maikl.jpg )

The obviously EPO-induced speed endurance.

The freakishly fast recoveries from injuries.

The level of dominance over other dirty sprinters.

Kids can be easily fooled. Those who have been around the track world for decades have a much better sense of what is real and what is fake.

So, no failed tests or evidence from those who would be in a position to know. Yet evidently those that have been around the sport for decades just "know". How jaded we've become. We can't celebrate the accomplishments of our sport without bringing info account allegations of doping, regardless of the lack of any credible evidence. Like the recent clean/dirty poll...95% of people responding don't have a clue as to whether those athletes are clean or not, absent a failed test or testimony from a credible witness. Yet it's all we seem to talk about. You're right...kids are gullible. They read these stories and come to believe the only way to succeed in our sport is cheating. I for one refuse to believe it.

I think it's pretty fair to assume that MJ could've in fact run 3 miles at sub-6 pace. Even if true, however, there is no chance that he'd be in sub-4 mile shape. I would tend to believe Ventolin's calculator that he'd have to be in, at worst, close to 15-flat 5k shape, coupled with his 400 fitness, to hit sub-4, and there is literally no chance that he could've done 15 flat. I'll give him 4:40 for the mile, and he'd be near dead at the finish.

BU wrote:

So, no failed tests or evidence from those who would be in a position to know. Yet evidently those that have been around the sport for decades just "know". How jaded we've become. We can't celebrate the accomplishments of our sport without bringing info account allegations of doping, regardless of the lack of any credible evidence.

Not jaded. Realistic. Anyone in/around cylcling with half a brain also knew Lance Armstrong was doped to the gills; idealistic fools deep in denial were the exception. Don't be one.

Lance had teammates and others in a position to know come forward with evidence. Big difference in my opinion.

I don't absolutely know if any particular athlete doped or not absent a positive test or testimony from a credible source. My point is that it's tough to advance our sport when every record or fast time is greeted with drug allegations. Do a search on "track" on ESPN.com. Instead of positive stories, it's filled with stories of doping. There are very few elite track athletes that have escaped doping allegations at one time or another, and I refuse to think all of them were dopers. I just think there needs to be something more substantial than a fast time before we "absolutely" state someone is dirty.

"I just think there needs to be something more substantial than a fast time before we "absolutely" state someone is dirty."

Didn't lol just present more reasons? BU is seeing/reading only what he/she wants to.

"My point is that it's tough to advance our sport when every record or fast time is greeted with drug allegations."

Possibly true, but so what? If you believe that "advancing our sport" is a laudable goal, what is the solution? To turn a blind eye as you do, or to try to eliminate doping? When you say "our sport", I know that for me, "my sport" doesn't include dopers.

Gold Leaf

I read the reasons, I just didn't see any that were absolutely credible. I haven't read any links of him to Balco/Biogenesis. I haven't read any reports of his teammates/acqaintences turning him in. If it were so obvious with credible evidence why hasn't he (or countless others accused without credible evidence) been subject to sanctions? This isn't about just MJ...it's about all elite athletes who have to undergo scrutiny by people who believe they cheat based primarily on their performances.

Look, I have no idea whether these guys are clean or not. Based on the numbe of positive drug tests amongst some of these athletes I believe it's a big problem. I just think its a bigger injustice to falsely accuse someone who's clean than to let a cheat go unchallenged.

As for a solution, wish I had one. I share your desire to clean up the sport, and I'm not naive enough to believe there isn't a significant drug component in the game today (and in the past). Quite honestly in all sports. Seems like the cheats are always one step ahead of us in regards to their chemists. To make things better, I would narrow the list of banned substances to hard steroids and HGH, and to those substances that mask steroids. No more busting someone for something slipped into a health supplement they purchase over the counter. One caveat...if they get busted, their done. Suspended for life. Biological passport is another solution that may have a place.

W. Mitty wrote:

Coe came close. I believe he ran 21.x (21.7 ?) in the 200m.

Very possible. He ran the anchor leg for GB in the 1979 European Cup 4 x 400m in 44.5.

i assume that was a typo

it's listed as 45.5

he likely was a 46-low open guy in '79

his actual 46.87pb run that year was a poorly run race, where he "blew up" racing v kasheef hassan, one of the best 400 guys in the world ( & a touted contender for medals for the following year's olympics )