he was doped to the eyeballs
allegedly epo too for recovery
he was doped to the eyeballs
allegedly epo too for recovery
Sun Salute To MJ96 wrote:
As for MJ being a 1:50 800m guy at best, you really think Michael Granville in HS was fitter than MJ in his prime? Get real.
Michael Granville in HS
200M 21.35 (HS Sr)
400M 46.15 (HS Jr)
800M 1:46.45 (HS Sr)
Do I think Michael Granville was a better 800 runner in HS than Michael Johnson in his prime? Yes, probably. Also, there's no way Granville could have gone under 4, so it doesn't matter.
Fat Boy wrote:
Agreed. And I would seriously doubt that he ever ran 16:30 for 3 miles. Quite frankly, I would doubt that he ever ran 3 miles ever in his training. That would have been contrary to his racing goals.
[/quote]
Johnson did 15-45 min runs twice a week in his conditioning phase of training. I hope to god you're not coaching anyone.
Mrr82 wrote:
Fat Boy wrote:Agreed. And I would seriously doubt that he ever ran 16:30 for 3 miles. Quite frankly, I would doubt that he ever ran 3 miles ever in his training. That would have been contrary to his racing goals.
Johnson did 15-45 min runs twice a week in his conditioning phase of training. I hope to god you're not coaching anyone.[/quote]
Clyde Hart also has his 400M guys doing 15 minute steady-states and 6 x 800s. Would it really be so crazy to have a 400M runner doing 3 - 4 mile tempos once a week?
I think Alan Webb was a 47.xx 400M guy in HS. It's not absurd to be touching on aerobic capacity for a 400M runner. Some of the best 400M-800M HS kids also do XC.
If you're really hoping to God I'm not coaching anyone, you must be hoping quite a few others things off to God as well because talking about this sort of thing is hardly that big of a deal.
Sun Salute To MJ96 wrote:
Mrr82 wrote:Johnson did 15-45 min runs twice a week in his conditioning phase of training. I hope to god you're not coaching anyone.
Clyde Hart also has his 400M guys doing 15 minute steady-states and 6 x 800s. Would it really be so crazy to have a 400M runner doing 3 - 4 mile tempos once a week?
I think Alan Webb was a 47.xx 400M guy in HS. It's not absurd to be touching on aerobic capacity for a 400M runner. Some of the best 400M-800M HS kids also do XC.
If you're really hoping to God I'm not coaching anyone, you must be hoping quite a few others things off to God as well because talking about this sort of thing is hardly that big of a deal.[/quote]
Why are you talking to me? I agree with you.
Talking about a mile is just silly.
Very, very silly indeed. Wondering if he could even crack 5:00.
After reading how he writes, it is fair to say he should stick to what he is good at, which includes sticking to the shorter stuff. There is a reason he didn't do a mile.
Maybe I can get this autographed though...
although autograph costs more than the book haha
Amusing fantasy, MJs massive conceit would never let it happen.
I once heard an interview where he was asked if he would run the 800 - he paused and stared, then replied with words that basically meant:
a) the interviewer was a complete moron with no understanding of track
b) he is indisputably the greatest mofo 200/400, and how can you expect someone of such exquisitely fine-tuned calibre to increase their range to 800m, and risk sully upon their unimpeachable greatness?
Not willing to touch 800, he definitely would go no where near 1609m.
Now i'm thinking - H. Geb is on of the greatest distance runners of all time, as great as MJ. Early in his career he won an indoor World Champ 1500m, and expanded his range all the way up to a marathon, a larger increase than 400->800 (ya ya, energy systems are different). Did he complain? Did he quite after failing early at the marathon?
I'm also thinking of the response of MJ's contemporary Donovan Bailey, when it was pointed out he was better suited for the 200m (btw DB crushed MJ in a 150m race, though MJ bailed due to mid race "muscle pull") and why he didn't run it more often. Bailey's response was to laugh and honestly say "i'm too lazy". For some reason i respected DB's honest and joyful reply rather then MJ's sullen, narcissistic polemic against expanding his range.
rtfgrtf wrote:
A: He wasn't running 3 mile tempos in 16:30.
B: Saying Johnson could run a 4:00 mile is like saying a 4:00 miler could break 21 in the 200. It's not happening.
Coe came close. I believe he ran 21.x (21.7 ?) in the 200m.
I believe there is a typo in this post, it makes sense only if "4:00" is changed to "5:00"!
And in that case, I'd still vote NO!
I could see a sub 4 1500m, but not mile. His times would completely drop off after 800-1000m. I could definitely see a 1:45ish 800, maybe faster, but even then he would be sprinting and not running. Has there been any races where he's done over 400m? (500,600, etc.)
15 pounds of muscle gained in one year is highly suspicious for an already highly trained, world class athlete.
Just sayin'
7/10
You started the thread with bogus tempo times and got a bunch of people to bite. Decent trolling.
Ancient Marathoner wrote:
I believe there is a typo in this post, it makes sense only if "4:00" is changed to "5:00"!
And in that case, I'd still vote NO!
Agreed but this is a troll thread.
Short school bus wrote:
7/10
You started the thread with bogus tempo times and got a bunch of people to bite. Decent trolling.
I didn't mean to, honestly. After posting and someone asked they'd like to see where I saw that, I looked it back up and noticed I'd made a mistake.
Again, the paper talks about Michael Johnson, then goes on to give the workouts and times of "MJ". I didn't pay attention the fact that "MJ" was a 21.70 guy his senior year of college versus Michael Johnson, who I believe ran 20.4 in his first collegiate 200! Beast mode.
Now I'm not even sure if "MJ" that ran 21.70 is even a real person or completely theoretical. As I said, I messed that up.
If you put a gun to his head in '96, I still think Michael Johnson could have broke 4:00 in the mile based upon Clyde Hart's training philosophy and assumption that's how he was actually training Michael.
exthrower wrote:
Steroids...His records mean nothing..
There is nothing funnier or more pathetic than seeing Michael Johnson's faux "shock" and "disappointment" at runners who test positive.
Unless, of course, he's just genuinely dismayed that they TESTED positive.
Mrr82 wrote:
Why are you talking to me? I agree with you.
Because I'm an idiot and thought you were talking to me when you said "I hope to god you aren't coaching anyone" although you were clearly responding to fatboy slim.
Ok fine you made a mistake with the tempo time, although it should have been obvious that the world's best 200/400 runner doesn't run sub 6 min pace for 3 mile tempos. But you still think he could run 4:00 for mile cause he did some longer distance runs?
Short school bus wrote:
Ok fine you made a mistake with the tempo time, although it should have been obvious that the world's best 200/400 runner doesn't run sub 6 min pace for 3 mile tempos. But you still think he could run 4:00 for mile cause he did some longer distance runs?
Obvious based upon what? The best swimmers in the world at those equivalent distances (who double in the 50/100, not just 50M guys) do serious aerobic training and can lay down a really strong 400 in the pool, and even a strong 1500. Clyde Hart clearly believes in aerobic training for the 400M athlete.
I think he could do it because it sounds like Hart had him doing 800M repetitions. That combined with the fact certain things couldn't be tested for in the 90s and that Michael Johnson was clearly a fierce competitor indicate if he lined up seriously in the 1500 or a mile he would be able to run very fast.
If he can run "very fast"
and if sub 4:00/mile is "very fast"
by the transitive property he should be able to run sub 4:00/mile, right?
Steve Haaas, Occidental College in the early 60s had bests of: (school Records) of 9.4, 20.7, 46.9 and 1:47.6 but couldn't break 4:00. His 1:47.6 trumps all of Johnson's shorter races and demonstrates superior endurance. However he still was shy of the guns necessary to run 4:00. This thing has been traveled before and just because some runs fast at lower /lesser distances it doesn't necessarily mean fast farther. Lee Evans and Tommie smith used to run 10 miles a day at times. That translated to faster 400 times. While more mid-distance guys are running it 4:00 is still a challenging mark to achieve.