Drunk driving doctor kills runner training for Boston

Well said, Training partner and supporter.

Drunk driving is drunk driving. PERIOD. It is the driver's fault. Period.

Unfortunately, there's a mindset in our culture that runners, cyclists, and pedestrians don't belong on roads and sidewalks, even when the are following the laws and taking all necessary safety precautions. This mindset has to change. It underscores why so many judges and juries are willing to allow negligent drivers off with slaps on the wrist.

Last year, a local runner was killed by a 16-year-old girl texting while driving an SUV. She got some kind of probation, and that's it. Of course, everyone cried "But she's only 16! She made a mistake!" Excuse me, but I thought that earning a driver's license was the state's way of acknowledging that you are adult enough to be required to follow the rules of the road. If that's the case, you are adult enough to suffer the consequences of your actions. And if 16 is too young to be responsible, then 16 year olds shouldn't be driving, either.

Flagpole wrote:

Running on roads is stupid. No two ways about it. Blame goes to drunk and distracted drivers, but as I said before, that doesn't bring a dead runner back.

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to run on the finely groomed, well-lit trails you apparently enjoy, you elitist douchebag.

Voice from Portland wrote:

My sense, as someone who has probably run five times as many miles as you have...

A funny statement coming from someone who called my claims "baseless".

Would be VERY difficult for someone to have run 5 times as many miles as I have (as if that matters even if it were true).

How old are you? Did you start running at age 8? Have you ever had a period of time in your life when you were running 140 MPW? Ever trained for and run any ultra marathons?

I actually give no credit to anyone for miles run...getting involved in a 'who's got a bigger d!ck' contest is not the way of Flagpole. But, a silly comment like you've probably run 5 times as many miles as I have when you have no idea how many miles I've run...well, that deserves at least a comment from me. Weird thing to say based on no evidence.

The biggest problem I have is that in the aftermath the advice given in the article is to "keep your headphones on low". That is the worst advice you can give!!! Running (not to mention other other activities) with headphones AT ALL is suicide.

Unlike you, I said "probably." And I have some basis. I know from many things you've written on here over the years that you haven't run seriously in many years. I, on the other hand, have been running since 1969, and have averaged more than 3,000 miles per year. So I took a guess, and I qualified it. If I was off, I'd bet it wasn't by much.

You, on the other hand, have mad UNQUALIFIED, BASELESS assertions. And you have made them in the process of accusing a tragic, innocent, young victim of vehicular homicide of suicide.

Open your eyes, brother.

Flagpole wrote:

Voice from Portland wrote:

I have dozens of runner friends who run 1000s of miles on roads. None has ever been injured by a car.

Ok then...your anecdote makes it a safe activity then. My bad. Carry on.

This is precisely why you are often believed to be a fool. You make a valid point here. This posters limited experience does not adequately address the issue. Nor do your personal feelings.

Running on the roads (like ANY activity) is on a continuum of risk. At one end is lying still in the middle of your bed, at the other is leaping from tall buildings. You are more conservative in your risk taking. Others are not as conservative and will take the chance (whatever it may be) and run on the roads.

This is not a right or wrong issue. It is a personal choice. Some posters cite statistics to demonstrate the level of risk. You, however, just bloviate about how you are RIGHT about the issue.

Again, this is an example of Flagpole the fool.

Please understand this comes from somebody that usually agrees with you.

Always need to get the last word in. Go away!

No one gets killed by a car running when they are not running.Don't run and you won't get killed by a car while running.

Flagpole wrote:

1) No one gets killed by a car running where there aren't cars.

2) Runners getting killed by cars happens a LOT more than you and most runners think.

3) A small chance of getting killed or not, this is a risk that is completely avoidable, and not only that, but it should be desirable. Who the hell wants to run and breathe all that car exhaust on a road anyway?

Running on roads is stupid. No two ways about it. Blame goes to drunk and distracted drivers, but as I said before, that doesn't bring a dead runner back.

Flagpole wrote:

I can understand how people might disagree with me here, but I honestly don't understand the hatred I get because of this stance of mine. Seems weird.

Flagpole, this thread was designed to be call attention to the untimely death of a particular person and provide a forum for her remembrance.

When you turn around and call her form of death a "suicide" people have every right to be upset with you.

Having your stance is fine, but do not do this on this thread. Lest her family and friends should happen upon this thread in the future and see your disgusting remarks.

Show a bit of respect for Mrs. Menzies and have some empathy for her family and friends.

Ha! Nailed it.

redux wrote:

Shut up you mewling, pedantic blowhard.

Did he really say it was suicide?

Dustin Sweeney wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

I can understand how people might disagree with me here, but I honestly don't understand the hatred I get because of this stance of mine. Seems weird.

Flagpole, this thread was designed to be call attention to the untimely death of a particular person and provide a forum for her remembrance.

When you turn around and call her form of death a "suicide" people have every right to be upset with you.

Having your stance is fine, but do not do this on this thread. Lest her family and friends should happen upon this thread in the future and see your disgusting remarks.

Show a bit of respect for Mrs. Menzies and have some empathy for her family and friends.

1) There is no right or wrong about smoking. It is a personal choice. Right? JUST BECAUSE IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT WRONG! People make personal choices all the time that are wrong. I say this is one of them.

2) People will do with statistics what they will, and USUALLY they will decide that they will fall into the camp that doesn't become harmed no matter the stats. Also, stats are never in agreement. Is 20 runners being killed by cars in the US in 2009 enough to sway you? Depends on how many runners you actually believe are running on heavily traveled roads. I don't see it very often actually. Do you believe the stat that 122,000 runners, walkers, and bikers are stuck by cars each year? If so, is that enough to convince you to not do those activities where cars are? It's enough for me. Oh yeah, of course not all who are hit by cars are killed. Serious injuries aren't anything to worry about I guess.

3) You are doing nothing different from what I am doing (except that I'm a better writer). You don't believe running on the roads is risky, and I do. I have written MORE about it in this thread than you because some have asked me questions here, and because I am passionate about the topic. You are NOT passionate about the topic.

4) It's a sad day when a runner loses his or her life by being hit by a car. It becomes a SADDER day if people don't wake up to the danger and make some changes in their lives.

Part of it depends on where you are in life. I used to run on the roads...all the time. I had cars whizzing by me, had to jump into the ditch more than a few times, but as I got older, got married and had children that I am responsible for, it made me realize it was time to stop with that needlessly risky behavior.

I can only hope that others will stop doing it too. No amount of you people calling me a fool will make me stop caring about your safety. As I said in threads the last couple times something like this happened, I know this will happen again, and it is just something that does not have to. Fortunately (or actually maybe unfortunately) a thread doesn't get started here every time a runner is killed by a car.

As far as THIS matter is concerned, the drunk-driving a$$hole needs to spend the rest of his life in jail.

Out of respect for her family and friends who visit LRC, I'm going to ask you to stop posting on this thread now. Your points, while valid, come at a time that shows an great amount of insensitivity. Take your soapbox to another thread on another day. Let us grieve for her without you grandstanding.

Flagpole wrote:

Again, this is an example of Flagpole the fool.

Please understand this comes from somebody that usually agrees with you.

1) There is no right or wrong about smoking. It is a personal choice. Right? JUST BECAUSE IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT WRONG! People make personal choices all the time that are wrong. I say this is one of them.

2) People will do with statistics what they will, and USUALLY they will decide that they will fall into the camp that doesn't become harmed no matter the stats. Also, stats are never in agreement. Is 20 runners being killed by cars in the US in 2009 enough to sway you? Depends on how many runners you actually believe are running on heavily traveled roads. I don't see it very often actually. Do you believe the stat that 122,000 runners, walkers, and bikers are stuck by cars each year? If so, is that enough to convince you to not do those activities where cars are? It's enough for me. Oh yeah, of course not all who are hit by cars are killed. Serious injuries aren't anything to worry about I guess.

3) You are doing nothing different from what I am doing (except that I'm a better writer). You don't believe running on the roads is risky, and I do. I have written MORE about it in this thread than you because some have asked me questions here, and because I am passionate about the topic. You are NOT passionate about the topic.

4) It's a sad day when a runner loses his or her life by being hit by a car. It becomes a SADDER day if people don't wake up to the danger and make some changes in their lives.

[/quote]

Smoking is not "wrong". I agree it is a poor choice, but that is all it is. Again, this is another activity that has risks and people make their choices. You and I share the same opinion on smoking. I admit it is my opinion, you believe it is an absolute.

OK then, so statistics can't be used to assess risk? Tell that to an actuary.

Agree, we are both arguing a point. You do it with inferior logic and writing skills. You do have more passion about this topic. Who cares? If anything your passion just clouds you ability to think logically.

It is a sad day when people forgo activities they enjoy because of fear of remote possibilities of a negative outcome.

I am going skiing in 2 weeks. It is a risky sport I enjoy. I understand the risks, and take reasonable safety precautions but understand that there is a possibility of a bad injury or even death. It is a simple cost/benefit analysis done on a personal level. My enjoyment (benefit) from skiing (and running on some roads) exceeds the danger (costs).

Just a personal decision.

the fools are the ones who don't see the danger, reason, or logic?

I stopped running on roads, can't count the number of times "what if" situations that involve possible injury or death. Lots of close calls. Lucky I was paying attention, because if the driver isn't paying attention there isn't much you can do! GET IT?

all Flagpole is saying is...

1. be safe if possible (all the time if you can), if you have a choice don't run on the roads, especially with heavy traffic/high speed.

2. reality is most of us do have choice, even if it means run around and around a football field, or park, or use a treadmill....take the time to think about better option!...why is this advised bad?..I don't get it?

3. Another reality, some are use to lazy to find better route?

3. all cars are a dangerous regardless if the driver is drunk, texting, eating, talking, site seeing, speeding, etc etc...in the end, a 2000lb one is dangerous!

4. Accident with a CAR....it's a no win situation for the runner or walker, even if the driver makes a honest mistake and did all the right things....believe it or not some runners getting hit is actually there fault by doing something supid, like running across the street thought heavy traffic...stop taking chances when you don't have to!

5. overall message, critcally think...your life depends on it! Good message!

It's a pretty sad story and she has 3 young kids.

Flagpole you really are a special kind of douchebag.

Flagpole - you are a stupid man who thinks he is smart. You are also funny... but certainly not on purpose.

Scott Fry

Daughter MIT/Caltech/AUDIBLE GASP AT SAT SCORES

BICEPS

MUSICIAN COULD BE WORLD CLASS

REAL MAN

I sometimes suspect you are fake. Too perfect.

Flagpole wrote:

As I've consistently said, you can NEVER protect yourself against drunk drivers or distracted drivers or just people who don't see you.

These sad stories do not have to continue. The a$$hole drunk driver gets all the blame, but that's not enough to bring this runner back.

Running on roads with traffic is suicide.

First point makes it all about Flagpole, just the way the narcissistic prick likes it.

Second point insinuates blame lies with the runner "The a$$hole drunk driver gets all the blame, but..." an insanely offensive statement, akin to saying a woman shares blame in a rape because she dressed sexy.

The third statement is a ridiculous over exaggeration that doesn't deserve to even be acknowledged but Flagpole knows it will turn the entire thread to be about him.

You're a real piece of work Flag.

If you run on sidewalks, you continually cross driveways and intersections, so no picnic either. In fact, sometimes they put the stop sign closer to the intersection than the imaginary line between sidewalks, so that it is safer to run on the road than the sidewalk in parts of my neighborhood, and it's very dangerous to run on sidewalks around the many strip malls around here, where cars cross with no attention to pedestrians, or maybe with malevolent intent, it seems.