Good post Mikey!
Good post Mikey!
R2D3 wrote:
DRIVER WHO HIT PRO CYCLISTS GETS 7 DAYS IN JAIL
January 14, 2014 • Posted by: Michael McKisson
http://tucsonvelo.com/news/driver-hit-pro-cyclists-gets-7-days-jail/18135
I'm surprised any jail time was awarded. Rarely ever do motorists that kill a cyclist get charged or serve any time at all. In fact you could probably intentionally kill a cyclist while driving and claim it was accident and get off easy.
Again, Flaggy, in principle, I agree with your position.
We agree that the runner's death was a tragedy. We agree that runners often take avoidable risks.
Unfortunately, you are coming off heavy-handed on this thread.
In that sense, because others have chosen to attack your comments, you have hijacked this thread.
For all runners:
1. Don't run on busy roadways.
2. Don't run on a road with speed limit >35.
3. Don't run during the morning/evening rush.
4. Wear a shirt that contrasts your surroundings.
5. Run against the traffic.
6. Keep an eye on the oncoming car and be aware of your footing.
7. To create more distance between you and the oncoming car, run on the gravel that is against the pavement, if possible.
8. Be aware, be careful, just run baby.
Citizen Runner wrote:
A lot of angles to this story. The DUI doctor was awarded $20M in a lawsuit after his own wife was killed in a automobile crash in 2006. The runner/victim's husband is a policeman who does DUI enforcement and outreach.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/local/ashland/mechanicsville-doctor-charged-in-jogger-s-death/article_71bcdbb2-4b32-5add-8d2f-7a7264ea615a.html
Wow, that's some payoff. That's more than wrongfully convicted felons get as severance pay after spending half of their innocent lives in prison.
genuine random a hole wrote:
It is not the stance in particular. It is phrases such as "beacon of truth" that are so annoying. Your acknowledging that you understand how people might disagree is a start, but you generally are unable to acknowledge when you are wrong. It is this that causes the animosity.
1) It appears I HAVE to use a phrase such as "beacon of truth" when so many of you to that point were so adamantly against me (I see several people with their heads screwed on straight have responded properly since I wrote that, so good show).
2) I am never unable to acknowledge when I am wrong. If I am wrong, I ALWAYS say so. I am NOT wrong here, so not sure where that comment is coming from.
3) Another poster here said I post to promote my presence on this message board. Nothing is further from the truth. I read a lot of stuff here and never post on most subjects. This is one that I feel strongly about, so I post. And, I ONLY post about it in hopes that more people will quit running on the roads. It is more dangerous today than ever before...distracted driving, drunk driving still going strong, a HUGE elderly population that isn't yet willing to stop driving (not that all of them need to, but some do).
4) When I'm in the room, there are NO elephants in the room. I'll say something when it needs to be said. You runners running on the roads...you're just rolling the dice.
A dice with over 100,000 sides
Pistorius vows to make Olympic final! He is back. Moving to USA.
For what it's worth...
I used to work in Hanover, where this runner lived. All of these roads are country roads, very windy, small shoulder, speeding drivers. I ran a few times from my job and it was terrifying. I ended up running in the weeds most of the time, and I always thought if someone was going off the road, running just off the side wouldn't be far enough.
I am in no way blaming this woman, we all take risks every day we wake up. You can't stay in your house and hide from everything in hopes of avoiding anything bad.
I'm just trying to give you guys a frame of reference of the area that this took place. These are not busy city roads or high speed limit roads. It's a beautiful place to go for a run, just not the safest.
In that same road at that same time of day, there could have been kids waiting for a school bus instead of Meg running by (I drive past country roads like this one near Richmond every day, and yes there are MANY school bus stops in these roads!). Should we vilify kids for going to school to try to learn? Not every family has a stay at home parent that can drive their kids to school.
I ran with Meg on my Saturday long runs for many years. She did all the right things that others have posted about running in a smart manner (visible to traffic with lamps/vests/reflectors, no headphones, no reckless decision-making). If all she did incorrectly was be on a road, well then I guess we all better stay off the road for fear of a drunken idiot. No more running, cycling, walking your dog, driving to work, construction, etc.
Please get some perspective people. If it were someone you cared about, I don't think you'd vilify them in this manner either. If she were driving to the gym at that same time, would her death be her own fault?
Well said.
Putting blame on this young lady or implying she committed suicide by choosing to run on the road is not only absurdly insensitive, it is also monumentally stupid. If you want to campaign to make people safer, then you should be focusing on drunk and incompetent drivers since it is they who cause accidents, not the victims.
+1 wrote:
Putting blame on this young lady or implying she committed suicide by choosing to run on the road is not only absurdly insensitive, it is also monumentally stupid. If you want to campaign to make people safer, then you should be focusing on drunk and incompetent drivers since it is they who cause accidents, not the victims.
1) I'm not blaming this lady. Blame goes to the drunk driver.
2) Campaigns are ALREADY strong with regard to drunk drivers, and I have a super hard-line stance against them...biggest idiots on the planet; a lifetime in prison for one drunk driving offense would be fine with me. The area that DOESN'T get enough attention is the potential victim side. Just like you would advise a teenage daughter how not to put herself into a potential risky situation, the same is true for runners on roads...doesn't mean you BLAME either if something bad happens, but there are things they COULD HAVE DONE to avoid the bad outcome.
3) To talk about safety in the wake of a tragic accident is not insensitive. It is the complete opposite of that.
4) You are saying that someone talking about runners not running on roads with traffic is "monumentally stupid"...well, then brother, please don't share any of your test scores with me, because that discussion is FAR from stupid. Runners getting hit and killed by cars happens all too often, and YES most of the time it is the fault of the driver, but I know that if that happened to one of my kids or my wife, that I would find NO comfort in that. Even when it happens to someone I've never met, I find no comfort in that. It sucks. It sucks every time I read about it, and this will NOT be the last time.
Ho Hum wrote:
How often does it happen? The fact that something occurs does not make it common when you're talking about millions of people. To call this suicide is really offensive, Flagpole.
1) Millions of people are NOT running on the roads. The vast majority of runners do not do this anymore.
2) If I have to be the beacon of truth with regard to this dangerous activity and somehow somewhere down the line it keeps someone from not losing their life in this manner, then I will gladly take it on.
I can understand how people might disagree with me here, but I honestly don't understand the hatred I get because of this stance of mine. Seems weird.
_______________________________________________________
Seriously? You don't know why you're getting hatred?
You're implying that the woman who was killed as a result of someone's negligence, and nothing else, was somehow partially responsible. Really, think about what you're saying.
How is this any different from someone being killed by a drunk driver while driving in a car. We all know there are risks with driving, that there may be a drunk or otherwise inattentive/impaired driver out there, yet I can't imagine that you would fault someone killed while driving.
And don't give me that "Well, there are other places they could have run." It's not up to the runner to run other places when the roads should be perfectly safe. Your other observation (I believe it was yours, though if it wasn't, I'm still pointing it out because it's ludicrous) that the "vast majority" of runners do not run on the roads anymore is bizarre. Though I can't vouch for the rest of the country's runner's habits, I can tell you that here in rural Mass., most people I know run at least 1/2 their time on the roads, and I live in a place with a notoriously high alcoholism rate. Still, it is exceedingly rare that any pedestrian is injured by a drunk driver, and if someone is, it certainly doesn't inspire every runner to stay off the roads.
I've been logging @ 3000 miles a year, with @ 2000 of those miles on roads, and I've rarely even had to dodge a car. However, getting back to my original point, if I were hit by a car, especially one driven by someone who was drunk or high, to imply that it would in any way be my fault is ridiculous.
It's like the short skirt/rape thing, but I don't want to really go there because that's a whole other can of worms.
Don't twist it. I said implying that running on the roads is suicide was monumentally stupid and absurdly insensitive.
I'm sure this lady weighed up the risks and decided it was safe. She was the victim of a tragic accident but I see no reason to question her judgement. She couldn't account for an idiotic drunk driver to take her life away, much like the theater goer couldn't have accounted for someone to shoot him dead because he was texting during the movie, or anything else that happens because of freakish circumstance or another person's wrong doing.
Yes, we should try to minimize the risk when we know there is danger. But how far do you go with that? What is a acceptable risk to take? Should I board up all the windows in my house because there is a chance a burglar could break in through one?
Discussing safety could be done is a sensitive manner, but throwing around words like suicide in a situation like this is highly insensitive.
Flagpole, am I wrong or have you NEVER cited any statistics regarding either the number of runners who run on roads or the number of fatalities per runner-mile. All I've seen are baseless claims. My sense, as someone who has probably run five times as many miles as you have, is that you grossly underestimate the number of runners who run on roads (in terms of miles, anyway), and grossly overestimate the number of these tragic incidents.
I have dozens of runner friends who run 1000s of miles on roads. None has ever been injured by a car. I wish I could say the same about my cyclist friends.
Flagpole wrote:
WhitePony wrote:Where are you suggesting that runners run? Not being argumentative, just wondering what exactly you are saying.
In a field
On a track
In a park
On a treadmill
On a bike path
Anywhere but where there are cars traveling at a decent speed.
Want to run only in a suburb where you never run a road where the speed limit is greater than 25 MPH, then OK...that's an acceptable risk to me, but anything beyond that is too risky.
Don't have any of the above things available to you? Well, then perhaps you need to move. Choosing to run on roads with cars because it is convenient and because you (not YOU specifically, the collective YOU) feel entitled is foolhardy.
I live in a small town so there are no streets with a speed limit over 30mph. Having run in larger cites in the past through I can see your point.
Voice from Portland wrote:
I have dozens of runner friends who run 1000s of miles on roads. None has ever been injured by a car.
Ok then...your anecdote makes it a safe activity then. My bad. Carry on.
Flagpole you're f*cking ridiculous. You have nothing to support your assertion that is "suicide". Statistics and common sense show that this is total bullshit
should be "that running on the roads is suicide"
bigtool05 wrote:
should be "that running on the roads is suicide"
NOW we're getting somewhere.