Top Ten Greatest High School Runners (Boys)

troglodyte wrote:

I was at Prospect HS Prep International Meet when Virgin set the HS 2M record. Virgin jumped to the lead immediately. That race was over after the first 80 yards. For Centrowitz to say he hung with Virgin for 880y, it defies reality. Centrowitz ceded that race to Virgin before the gun went off. It was about 92 degrees that afternoon. My dad and I were sunburned as hell afterwards.

I would definitely agree that Virgin is a Top 10 and perhaps even a Top 5. Although he didn't break 8:40, I would him ahead of LV and Fernandez primarily because of the conditions of that race. He was a dominating HS runner that was unmatched in his era.

mid-atlantic native wrote:

Marty Liquori ranks up there just below Ryun. IMO, he had a better emotional balance than Ryun, more suited for competitive racing.

Actually Ryun was a great competitor until he was ruined by the US media after finishing second (at well above a mile in altitude) in the '68 Olympics. By your logic, then Liquori was actually terrible. He ran horribly in the '68 1500 final, didn't make it in '72 or '76, and has only a second in the 5k at the '78 World Cup.

In truth, Ryun and Liquori both had bad luck, just like many other world class runners throughout history.

#1 - Louis Zamperini !!!

8th in 1936 Olympic 5k

Tied for win in Olympic trials.

I don't think Rupp has a national championship XC or Track? I could be wrong. He has the 5,000 and the 10,000 records but they aren't run often at the HS level.

Dwayne Evans

bronze medal in Olympic 200m.

Cheserek is top 3 for sure after Pre and Rupp

Just want to thank you "get real" for posting that great article. I had read it before and since I started running at age 11 in 1978 (in the Midwest) I have been aware of the greatness of Virgin for a long time, but it is always fun to see it again.

one thing to consider about Virgin and Ryun (and lots of other top HS guys) is that most of their top times came in HS only races.

Cheserek, Verzbicas, Webb, Jeff Nelson, Rupp, Fernandez all ran faster in their respective events than some of the guys in the 60's and 70's, some of the time ... but did they run a 3:58y or 8:41y against HS competition under tough conditions?

Also, FWIW, Virgin broke 9:00 for 2-miles in 10th, 11th and 12th grades; doubled in about 75% of his meets; and actually lived and trained and competed like a High-schooler. Many of the phenoms the last 10 years (YES, I am calling out Cheserek and Lukas V. for not even competing in close to a HS season) were pampered and did not.

I don't like comparing eras or playing "what if", but if you familiar AT ALL with the 70's era of runners, you would know that had the 1972 Virgin been transplanted to run in THIS ERA (2010-2013) and put him in OPEN races, I believe he would have run 4:01y, 8:34y, 13:42 and probably not attempted the 10k.

Today, the tracks, the National Meets, bigger National-class fields, the concentration of talent at fewer, bigger meets, and the presence of more 8:40-level runners would have pushed a talent like Virgin to much better marks. He already has the competitive record to belong in the top-10 all-time.

did you jus see that holmes wrote:

1) Ryun

2) Lindgren

3) Virgin

4) Webb

5) Ritzenhein

6) Fernandez

7) Verzbicas

8) Chapa

9) Rupp

10) Prefontaine

Placing Virgin over Webb is perhaps an emotional decision becasue it's definitely not statistically correct. The top-4 is pretty straight forward Ryun, Lindgren, Webb and Verzbicas, beyond that it get difficult. Also, how could the 800m HSR not at least be in the top-10?

There is no question Virgin over-raced but we all over-raced in the 70's. Virgin's 13th place finish at the 1972 AAU CC meet in an Olympic year (he claims he actually took 12th) also is notable because everyone ran cross-country nationals back then. He beat some big boys in Washington Park that day and the course had 3-4 inches of snow.

trackcoach wrote:

did you jus see that holmes wrote:

1) Ryun

2) Lindgren

3) Virgin

4) Webb

5) Ritzenhein

6) Fernandez

7) Verzbicas

8) Chapa

9) Rupp

10) Prefontaine

Also, how could the 800m HSR not at least be in the top-10?

Granville was an 800m specialist, so I guess it depends on whether you want to inlcude that category with 5000 and 10000m runners. Not saying it's wrong, but it would be an awfully broad comparison.

No particular order

Ryun

Lindgren

Webb

Verzbicas

Granville

Ritz

Ches

Virgin

Fernandez

Kersh

Mixture between top 800-XC in each of their areas of specialty . Not the same team I would pick if we had to choose a top 10 that would race at each distances 800m-XC. I did not include 5k and 10k track runners because it is not a commonly run distance.

Virgin did lose a mile indoors to the late Larry Gnapp at the Oak Park Relays his senior year. Saw that race too.

Gym Class Shuffle wrote:

Craig virign should be up there somewhere. Still holds IL state xc record which niether chris derrick or LV could take down. And ran 8:40.9 in the 2 mile which was a record at the time, i believe. Also had the best or atleast top 3 in post highschool career. Dont remember his other PRs but i will look em up later.

This video is a good highlight of Virgin's career and includes some very brief and old 8mm footage from his HS career. Sure wish someone had footage from the 8:40 2m.

It depends on whether you value the standard deviation of the mean or just the absolute. Isaac Newton would score high on the first scale, but not even be mentioned on the second.

There are people who made an impact on the media and their sport. That is one category.

There are people who ran faster times than ever before. That is another category.

There are people who ran times that were unusual for their era. That is another category.

It would be better if these categories were presented as separate value systems rather than pretending that you can create a final list that means anything.

Do you do this for a living?

Rich Kimball.

World Jr. XC Champion 1974

Doubled 8:46 and 4:06 (2mi/1mi) to win two CA state titles with less than an hour between events. 4:11 heat the previous evening.

Soloed 4:02 on a dirt track, leading every step, no one with 100 yards of him.

Rupp definitely

add Roy Martin

I'm glad to see names like Dwayne Evans and Roy Martin Jr. being thrown out there for the "greatest high school runner" list. Any hurdlers??? Dude from Spokane ran a pretty good 400 back in the day.

Just distance runners? wrote:

I'm glad to see names like Dwayne Evans and Roy Martin Jr. being thrown out there for the "greatest high school runner" list. Any hurdlers??? Dude from Spokane ran a pretty good 400 back in the day.

Pretty sure the OP intended to limit this particular thread to middle distance and distance runners.

Just distance runners? wrote:

Dude from Spokane ran a pretty good 400 back in the day.

Pretty sure you meant Tacoma. :)