I do believe we've seen the last white decathlon champion.
I do believe we've seen the last white decathlon champion.
HeavyPV wrote:
Zu Hoch wrote:...I checked the Essx site(a brand) and they max out at 225. A lot of weight to lose and I'm sure that would also mean muscle too.
They will custom make poles at higher weights if you have deep pockets.
If he dropped 25lbs and had superior technique you can get away with jumping on poles 20-30lbs under weight and still be effective
Thanks. I wasn't sure if companies could make really heavy poles. Was never near the 200 lb mark myself.
For those wondering, Jurgen Hingsen was a 6'7 decathlete. More recently, Dmitriy Karpov is 6'6 and probably around 200lbs. Both scored +8700.
ttc wrote:
My point is, if he can bench 385 lbs 5X at 6-8, run 4.6 & vertical 36" at 280 lbs- then nothing is out of reach.
A 40 yd dash should be a real issue for a at his height, weight. How fast & vertical would he be if he actually trimmed down some & trained specifically to run & jump- which he's never done?? Plus, his height is more fitting to high hurdle & 400M. Going 4.60 at his dimensions indicate unreal explosion, given it's hard to "unwind" that fast in only 40 yds. And with the long arms, benching 385 lbs 5X means he's even stronger than other guys doing the same. It all correlates to excelling at anything athletically- even when he shouldn't. And if you're going to play dumb on this obvious point, then don't bother.
Still haven't addressed that he couldn't hold a candle to Jacko Gill in most events and would probably lose to him in all events, and Gill is a 260 pound beast at only 6'3. Gill can beat that vertical, the speed, the lifts, has more endurance, and can crush him in the SP and he's only turning 19 in about a week from now. Discus might have been closer once upon a time, but if they both focused on it Gill would crush him in that too.
Having a good 40 doesn't mean you have a good 100, or 400, or 1500. Hunt couldn't touch Gill in any running or jumping event.
So given the fact he would be anniliated by another SP'er, it seems ridiculous to even talk about Ashton Eaton.
Known fact that shorter arms are huge bench press advantage. So all the strong ppl have short arms?? Of course not. Just like if a 6-foot person & 7-foot person can each jump & touch 12 feet, the 6-footer can jump higher. And to claim being 6-8 doesn't hurt a 40 yd time is ignorant- esp on a running board.
Yes, I know in the Decathlon a 10.2" 100M or 6-8 HJ is the same pts regardless of height/weight. My point is, Hunt shows there are no physical limitations with him. The things his body type "shouldn't" do, he excels in. Whether agree/disagree on the talent question, to argue this point means you either want to argue, or are ignorant.
I don't know anything about Gill. But if Gill is that "ridiculous", then maybe he should be included. That doesn't automatically exclude Hunt, making them mutually exclusive. Champions aren't always with the most raw talent. LeBron could have more raw talent than many T&F champions.
lousy marathoner wrote:
Decathlon is like triathlon.
Decathlon: throwers never win. Runners win.
Triathlon: Swimmers never win. cyclists win.
NCAA All-American swimmer Mark Allen won a triathlon championship or six and still holds the marathon split record at Ironman Kona.
Re Hunt, he clearly could be a world-class thrower and certainly would be better at the throws than Eaton. He, like a lot of world class throwers, is surprisingly fast at short sprints. It's likely that as a decathlete he'd struggle mightily with 400, 1500, and pole vault.
You could do this with lots of great athletes. What about LeBron, Deion Sanders, Usain Bolt, RGIII?
Decathlon is more about nurture than nature. The top guys have great natural ability, but so much about it is technique. A lot of decathletes started as pole vaulters because that is the toughest to learn.
I actually think Kobe would be the best decathlete among top athletes because he would get obsessed about it and work on his technique.
There is a surprising size range among decathletes, but Ashton's size is the most common. There have been a few really big guys.
He throw 22.31m in the 6kg SP at age 16. He had an off year at 17 but this past year threw 23.00. He's made even more strength gains so expect some big things from him in 2014. He's the future Olympic champion providing he doesn't screw it up. Crazy vertical and does lots of intense sprinting exercises.
Zu Hoch wrote:
Would love to see a 6'8 guy run the 110HH.
I'm pretty sure that Florian Schwarthoff is 6'8"
http://www.sporting-heroes.net/athletics/germany/florian-schwarthoff-525/110m-hurdles-silver-at-1994-euro-champs-result_a09834/I know he isn't 250lb but what about Calvin Johnson? He is 6'5" 235 lb and I'm sure he could top Margus Hunt in any event other than the throws.
open your eyes wrote:
I know he isn't 250lb but what about Calvin Johnson? He is 6'5" 235 lb and I'm sure he could top Margus Hunt in any event other than the throws.
If Hunt trained for the Dec, he's trim 25 lbs. imagine what that'd do. How fast & vertical would Calvin be if approaching 280 lbs?
Johnson has more natural speed than Hunt. If Hunt trimmed down this wouldn't change. You are saying "if Johnson got WAY out of shape and Hunt mystically became WAY faster." Johnson has more "raw" talent and speed and if they BOTH trained for it Johnson blows Margus Hunt away.
ttc wrote:
he's never done?? Plus, his height is more fitting to high hurdle & 400M. Going 4.60 at his dimensions indicate unreal explosion, given it's hard to "unwind" that fast in only 40 yds.
There's nothing to "unwind" in a football 40. Football 40s are timed with a RUNNING START with hand watches, not from a standstill like track, which is why 40 times seem fast but are not comparable to track times from the blocks.
ttc wrote:
I understand. But if Ashton never trained running/jumping, & was in the NFL like Hunt, he wouldn't be doing those times/marks. I'm talking *raw* talent, not trained product.
There are players in the NFL that could have approached or beaten Ashton with similar training as Ashton has had. Margus Hunt is not in the Top 100 of that list. Frankly I think this thread is ridiculous and one of my favorite pastimes is projecting athletes into other sports.
Les wrote:
There's nothing to "unwind" in a football 40. Football 40s are timed with a RUNNING START with hand watches, not from a standstill like track, which is why 40 times seem fast but are not comparable to track times from the blocks.
Running start? What are you talking about? You've obviously never seen a football 40 or a combine.
Also they aren't timed with hand watches, the NFL uses electronic timing since 1999 which i'm assuming is what Hunt's time is from. You are so far off it's ridiculous.
40 yard dash times and vertical leap really don't say a lot about a person's potential in the decathlon.
"It has been said that the fastest 10m to 30m sprints in history have been performed by Olympic hammer thrower and shot putters. How can they be faster than a world - class sprinter? The solution becomes apparent when we examine what makes great acceleration take place. Acceleration requires huge force production over a longer ground contact than at top speed. Because of this, maximal strength is important for bodyweight. The shot putter may have the
edge here. We also know that stride frequency and stride length are slower and shorter than at top speed. Because of this, the world - class sprinter cannot take advantage yet of their greater turnover. We know that upper body strength is also critical to great acceleration. Improved arm strength and mechanics are more important to driving the athlete forward than at top speed. This could also give the shot putter the edge. Now as the race goes on, acceleration becomes less and less as the athletes approach their top speed. At the 30m mark, science has shown that most athletes are at almost 95% of their top speed. Here the sprinter starts passing the shot putter."
http://www.pennfusion.org/docs/Acceleration%20Article-%20The%20First%2010%20Yards.pdf
Long story short, a big guy who comes from an explosive throwing background like Hunt might be decent at the 100m but he will be absolutely destroyed by a competent decathlete in the 400m and 1500m, even if he were to lose a lot of weight. Having a 6-8 frame isn't necessarily beneficial in the hurdles as really tall athletes have to shuffle their steps. Also, if he were to lose weight and improve his top-end speed, he will likely lose some of his explosive power.
Of course, I'd bet most world-class sprinters can run faster than a 4.6 40 yard dash also. Making the liklihood of Hunt being close to them for 100m essentially zero. Ashton Eaton has run 10.21 for 100m. My other example, Calvin Johnson, is reported to have run 4.3 for the 40 yard dash. I doubt any amount of training would make Margus Hunt a better 100m runner than either of these guys and gap would only grow as the distance increases.
It's been said? By whom? I can say whatever I want doesn't make it true. Don't know any elite hammer throwers who can beat Gay for example in a 30. Who would these SPers be? Cantwell, Hunter, Hoffa...those are the best. I'm sure they'll laugh if you ask them to line up against Tyson Gay. 10 meters...who knows nobody times that for throwers. Don't post crap.
Mrr82 wrote:
He throw 22.31m in the 6kg SP at age 16. He had an off year at 17 but this past year threw 23.00. He's made even more strength gains so expect some big things from him in 2014. He's the future Olympic champion providing he doesn't screw it up. Crazy vertical and does lots of intense sprinting exercises.
I just watched his training. Mrr82 is right, he's out of this world. Hunt? Get in line he's a nobody in comparison.
Zu Hoch wrote:
Would love to see a 6'8 guy run the 110HH. I also don't think they make poles for 280 pound guys. I checked the Essx site(a brand) and they max out at 225. A lot of weight to lose and I'm sure that would also mean muscle too.
That is only because Pole Vaulters are not very heavy. It doesn't mean they can't make a pole for someone closer to his weight. With good technique you can safely jump on poles 20-25lbs under your body weight.