I had a few runs with Stahl back in the day when he and other Swedes came to Australia to escape the European winter and seem to remember he had a very low impact economical style which may have accounted for his ability to constantly back up for marathons. Also, as he says his marathon races were part of his overall long run training.
I recall another interview with Stahl where he said that he was never able to push himself hard enough in marathons to really wreck himself. He thought that was why he could run marathons so frequently but also thought it limited how fast he could race them.
Like Kawauchi, he had a real job but also did really well with prize money.
In 2001, now I don't remember, one Italian athlete, Giorgio Calcaterra, ran 13 marathons during 14 following weeks, all in times between 2:13 and 2:20. In some day, when I'm back Italy from China, I can give the details of all his marathons.
He was a taxi driver, and, during that period, his weekly plan was as follows :
Monday : Rest
Tuesday : 40' easy
Wednesday : 1 hr easy
Thursday : 20' easy + 40' with short variations of speed (fartlek)
Friday : Rest
Saturady : 30' easy
SUNDAY : MARATHON
At that time, we had problems to select the Italian Team for the Marathon World Cup. So, I asked him to look for preparing, once in his life, ONE Marathon in proper way.
He answered me : "How much do you think I can run preparing in the best way only one Marathon ? 2:12, 2:11, because of sure I can't run faster than this. If I run 2:11, what can change in my life ? In any case, not enough for earning money, and not enough for having great satisfacions.
I like running, and this is my motivation. I am lucky that my body never got injured, and running in this way, I don't face any mental pressure. Why have I to change ?".
In the last 3-4 years, Giorgio Calcaterra became 2 times World Champion of 100 km, and never lost one race on the longest distance.
The problem to recover after a Marathon is 90% mental.
When an athlete is able running a Marathon very fast, his body is not hurted, because the question is : WHY WAS HE ABLE RUNNING SO FAST ? and the answer is : BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS WERE PERFECT.
When there are perfect conditions (temperature between 8° and 15° C, dry weather, no wind, flat course, even pace) an athlete doesn't lose too many mineral salts, and is able to preserve a good hydrosaline balance. He doesn't hurt his body, simply becomes empty at the end of the race, but doesn't provoke any damage his muscle fibers.
So, his only problem after the race is to REFUEL, and this is possible in 3 days with proper assumption of carbohydrates.
This can happen also at the highest levels. Moses Mosop, one week after running in Boston 2:03:06, was already in full training, 30 days later ran the best track session of his life, at 2400m of altitude, on a very dirty track in Kamarin (Iten), with 18 times 1000m (recovery 1'20"), the first in 2'45", 16 times in 2'42" andthe last in 2'36", and 13 days later destroyed the WR of 30000m in Eugene running 1:26:47.
Instead, when the winning time in a great Marathon is very slow (for example, WCh in Osaka 2007, or Boston last year, when Geoffrey Mutai dropped out), is because there is some reason which not allow runners to run fast, mainly high temperature (higher than 30° C) and high humidity.
In these conditions, after 20 km the athletes already lose more salts and more water than after the full Marathon in perfect conditions, and, for finishing the race, they need to find resources consuming the fatty acis in their cells membranes, provoking damageous to their muscle fibers which require very long time for returning at the previous level. I remember, in 1993, one my athlete finishing a Marathon with CK at 18,000 : she couldn't start running again for longer than 3 months.
In this case, the problem is not they finish the fuel, but they need to rebuild a part of their structure. In this case, aminoacids can have a great role in accelerating the solution, being like bricks for building a house.
Of course, when you finish a Marathon in that terrible conditions, you are affected mentally, too.
But, when everything is ok, it's possible to recover in very short time from a very fast Marathon.
If top african athletes don't use to run a REAL marathon at 97% of the max value, 4-5 weeks before the targetted Marathon, is not because this could not be a good technical option, but because there are problems of management : when you sign a contract for 100,000 - 300,000 USD for starting (appearance), you sign that you can't run any Marathon during the period included between two months BEFORE and two months AFTER the Marathon (that pays you, in any case, 50% of the appearance also if you drop out).
That's a reason because nobody, among the top runners, goes to run Dubai, also if is the fastest course, and is also the reason because, OF SURE, Kenenisa Bekele DOESN'T DEBUT IN DUBAI (there is no appearance).
HRE wrote:
From an interview with Stahl:
If you analyze your own training when you were at your
> best - what was it that made you so great?
>
> Well. I had a very good foundation from my background
> as an orienteerer and a track distance runner when I
> became a marathoner. As a marathoner I ran 170-190 km
> per week, almost all of it on forest paths and gravel
> roads. The pace was 4.00min/km during the morning run,
> usually 10 km, and 3:45min/km during the evening run,
> usually between 10 and 20 km. Apart from the so called
> Brösarp runs of 30-31 km in tough terrain which I did
> 5 times at 10-day intervals before important races, I
> seldom did any long runs. OTOH it could be for
> instance 14 km + 21 km in two sessions on one day. Of
> course, I ran so many marathons and those are the best
> kind of long runs! This kind of training mixture
> suited me well.
>
>
> What were your quality workouts like?
>
> I did 1-2 interval sessions per week, they could be
> 1000-, 700- or 400-meter repeats on a cycle path. I
> had one measured stretch of 430 meters which I would
> do 10 times in an average of 72 seconds, starting
> every 90 seconds, so the (standing) rest was just
> under 20 seconds. I did all quality workouts on
> asphalt, which was only logical when that's what I ran
> all my races on. I don't think I ever ran on a track
> during my marathon career.
>
I have spoken to Ståhl on numerous occasions (I have raced against him in the national masters XC championships). While his mileage during his heavy training periods was 170-190, his yearly average was, because of work and travel, around 140 km/week.
I don't doubt that. But looking at someone's average mileage can give a distorted picture of what they did or didn't do.
Giorgio Calcaterra; never heard of this guy... Where did you dig this up from..? Question coach Canvova do you have contact with Alberto Salazar & do you "advise" him on certain "things"..?
Renato Canova wrote:
In 2001, now I don't remember, one Italian athlete, Giorgio Calcaterra, ran 13 marathons during 14 following weeks, all in times between 2:13 and 2:20. In some day, when I'm back Italy from China, I can give the details of all his marathons.
He was a taxi driver, and, during that period, his weekly plan was as follows :
Monday : Rest
Tuesday : 40' easy
Wednesday : 1 hr easy
Thursday : 20' easy + 40' with short variations of speed (fartlek)
Friday : Rest
Saturady : 30' easy
SUNDAY : MARATHON
At that time, we had problems to select the Italian Team for the Marathon World Cup. So, I asked him to look for preparing, once in his life, ONE Marathon in proper way.
He answered me : "How much do you think I can run preparing in the best way only one Marathon ? 2:12, 2:11, because of sure I can't run faster than this. If I run 2:11, what can change in my life ? In any case, not enough for earning money, and not enough for having great satisfacions.
I like running, and this is my motivation. I am lucky that my body never got injured, and running in this way, I don't face any mental pressure. Why have I to change ?".
In the last 3-4 years, Giorgio Calcaterra became 2 times World Champion of 100 km, and never lost one race on the longest distance.
The problem to recover after a Marathon is 90% mental.
When an athlete is able running a Marathon very fast, his body is not hurted, because the question is : WHY WAS HE ABLE RUNNING SO FAST ? and the answer is : BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS WERE PERFECT.
When there are perfect conditions (temperature between 8° and 15° C, dry weather, no wind, flat course, even pace) an athlete doesn't lose too many mineral salts, and is able to preserve a good hydrosaline balance. He doesn't hurt his body, simply becomes empty at the end of the race, but doesn't provoke any damage his muscle fibers.
So, his only problem after the race is to REFUEL, and this is possible in 3 days with proper assumption of carbohydrates.
This can happen also at the highest levels. Moses Mosop, one week after running in Boston 2:03:06, was already in full training, 30 days later ran the best track session of his life, at 2400m of altitude, on a very dirty track in Kamarin (Iten), with 18 times 1000m (recovery 1'20"), the first in 2'45", 16 times in 2'42" andthe last in 2'36", and 13 days later destroyed the WR of 30000m in Eugene running 1:26:47.
Instead, when the winning time in a great Marathon is very slow (for example, WCh in Osaka 2007, or Boston last year, when Geoffrey Mutai dropped out), is because there is some reason which not allow runners to run fast, mainly high temperature (higher than 30° C) and high humidity.
In these conditions, after 20 km the athletes already lose more salts and more water than after the full Marathon in perfect conditions, and, for finishing the race, they need to find resources consuming the fatty acis in their cells membranes, provoking damageous to their muscle fibers which require very long time for returning at the previous level. I remember, in 1993, one my athlete finishing a Marathon with CK at 18,000 : she couldn't start running again for longer than 3 months.
In this case, the problem is not they finish the fuel, but they need to rebuild a part of their structure. In this case, aminoacids can have a great role in accelerating the solution, being like bricks for building a house.
Of course, when you finish a Marathon in that terrible conditions, you are affected mentally, too.
But, when everything is ok, it's possible to recover in very short time from a very fast Marathon.
If top african athletes don't use to run a REAL marathon at 97% of the max value, 4-5 weeks before the targetted Marathon, is not because this could not be a good technical option, but because there are problems of management : when you sign a contract for 100,000 - 300,000 USD for starting (appearance), you sign that you can't run any Marathon during the period included between two months BEFORE and two months AFTER the Marathon (that pays you, in any case, 50% of the appearance also if you drop out).
That's a reason because nobody, among the top runners, goes to run Dubai, also if is the fastest course, and is also the reason because, OF SURE, Kenenisa Bekele DOESN'T DEBUT IN DUBAI (there is no appearance).
Calculator Face wrote:
Giorgio Calcaterra; never heard of this guy... Where did you dig this up from..?
"I don't know anything about this, therefore it's B.S." For god's sake, if you don't know something try googling it before dismissing it. I'll help you out: the first thing that comes up is giorgiocalcaterra.com. The next is his English-language Wikipedia page with a link to his IAAF biography:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_CalcaterraRenato Canova wrote:
This can happen also at the highest levels. Moses Mosop, one week after running in Boston 2:03:06, was already in full training, 30 days later ran the best track session of his life, at 2400m of altitude, on a very dirty track in Kamarin (Iten), with 18 times 1000m (recovery 1'20"), the first in 2'45", 16 times in 2'42" andthe last in 2'36", and 13 days later destroyed the WR of 30000m in Eugene running 1:26:47.
I watched this race. It was amazing. I think it was the same meet where Rupp scratched because of pollen count too. 1:26:47 in non-Rupp certified conditions. Wow.
Giorgio Calcaterra ran 16 marathons under 2h20'in 2000.This is a wr.But himeself say that if many athletes more stronger want they beat this record.But I know that Calcaterra training was not like this plan.This week was only when he want run a marathon and finalize this marathon.Others marathons were like very important long trainings.When the week finished with a Marathon like a training more than a true race for him,this was a week:
M:AM easy 50';PM easy 50'+strides
T:AM easy 50';PM warmup + 8x1000m,recovery 2'jogging
W:AM eay 1h';PM easy 1h'
T:AM easy 1h';PM warmup + 15-20x400,recovery 1'jogging
F:AM easy 1h;PM easy 1h'+strides;
S:easy 45'
S:AM marathon
Where does Doug Kurtis ran with all of these characters..?
Renato nailed it on recovery. sub-elite Americans/LRC tough guys love to take a month off and gain 10lbs drinking beer after a marathon because they think "well that's what you're supposed to do to recover". the same guys are sitting on their couches marveling at Kawauchi and saying "that's ridiculous, he'll surely burn out soon". if you listen to and take care of your body (instead of just going by what you're "supposed to do" based on message board posts, advice from coaches with no clue, etc) you can do incredible things, and do them with more frequency than you ever thought possible. keep rolling YK!
Drugs = Recovery
Here is a 1 hour Youtube summary of the 2013 Hofu Yomiuri marathon in case anyone's interested:
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year