Just bought this book and am going to do the training plan. Any experience with this or thoughts on the ideas of the program?
Just bought this book and am going to do the training plan. Any experience with this or thoughts on the ideas of the program?
The only criticism that I have ever read was by people that don't think it should work but have never tried it. People that have followed it are always improving. I improved 20 minutes after using the program and had run 10 previous marathons. I recommend googling it as everyone on this board thinks they know better.
My wife and I used the Hanson plan to a tee for Chicago in October (her first marathon). She now swears by it as she not only finished but ran a negative split and felt good the whole way. I was just her moral support but as far as I can tell the whole "cumulative fatigue" think worked pretty well. Enjoy and good luck.
Worked great for my 2 marathons.... Ran a 3hr marathon in my first one and then took off 7 min the following year.
I have no idea if it works or not but I give mad respect with their willingness to share their philosophy. Most coaches of elite runners are not willing to give the day by day details of why they do what they do. I know that this is not an exact schedule of their elite runners but it does give us some insight as to why it all works.
10 pages of results from a search on here.
I've only run one marathon so I don't really have experience with other plans, but I thought overall the Hanson's plan worked pretty well. I especially liked the long tempo runs. My main criticisms are as follows:
1. The last phase switches from doing a V02 workout and a tempo workout each week to basically doing two tempo workouts - a long tempo and cruise intervals. I didn't really like this so I kept with the rhythm of a V02 workout on Tuesday with an increasingly long tempo on Thursday. I realize that by doing that I was essentially reverting to Jack Daniels so maybe I compromised the hansons method.
2. The mileage plans leave something to be desired. In the main part of the book they have incredibly low mileage, where even the "advanced" level tops out at 65 mpw. Sure you can flip to the appendix to see what a real Hansons runner does, but that goes to the other extreme, and on top of that it didn't even seem like he was following a similar plan. I know I can just adjust the plan to fit my own mileage needs, which I did, but I was never sure if it should be a linear adjustment, how workouts should change, etc.
I ended up thinking the training went well, and on raceday I stupidly went out too fast and ended up a few minutes over of my goal time. Maybe a compliment to the plan is that even though my aim was to not go out too fast the first 10 miles felt so easy that I did anyway.
If I do another marathon I'll probably stick to the same training plan, maybe with a bit higher mileage, and try to race smarter. I would be interested to hear from others what they think about two tempo style workouts in one week.
ill give this a try when training for boston this winter. a few 16 mile long runs sound better than 20 mile runs in the cold/snow.
i still don't understand exactly how it's possible to run a successful marathon topping off at only 16 miles during training. are 16 mile runs tempo pace?
So in other words, you ignored key parts of the training plan and add nothing of value other than you thought you knew more than the Hansons and failed.
how is this possible wrote:
are 16 mile runs tempo pace?
No, but they're your fastest non-tempo/strength/speed runs - the recommendation translates to roughly marathon pace + 35s for a 2:50 marathoner. (See pgs. 82-83 of the book.)
asdas wrote:
windy city wrote:I've only run one marathon so I don't really have experience with other plans
So in other words, you ignored key parts of the training plan and add nothing of value other than you thought you knew more than the Hansons and failed.
Also, he has run all of one marathon. (Sigh).
1. The point of the strength workouts on Tuesday in the second "phase" (which replace the speed workouts in the first phase)is basically to stimulate the lactate threshold. Hansons has us do them at MP minus 10 seconds. I suspect if a plan is tailored to an individual this 10 seconds could range from 20 seconds to 10 (the closer to elite the closer to 10), but that would have been too complicated to explain perhaps. 2. The author (Luke Humphrey) does provide guidelines for increasing mileage, see pgs. 103-106.
windy city wrote:
1. The last phase switches from doing a V02 workout and a tempo workout each week to basically doing two tempo workouts - a long tempo and cruise intervals. I didn't really like this so I kept with the rhythm of a V02 workout on Tuesday with an increasingly long tempo on Thursday. I realize that by doing that I was essentially reverting to Jack Daniels so maybe I compromised the hansons method.
2. The mileage plans leave something to be desired. In the main part of the book they have incredibly low mileage, where even the "advanced" level tops out at 65 mpw.
windy city wrote:
1. The last phase switches from doing a V02 workout and a tempo workout each week to basically doing two tempo workouts - a long tempo and cruise intervals. I didn't really like this
VO2 workouts are essentially useless close to the Marathon. This part makes perfect sense. First you build the foundation and then you are ready for a HM paced tempo and a M paced tempo per week.
windy city wrote:
I didn't really like this so I kept with the rhythm of a V02 workout on Tuesday
I ended up thinking the training went well, and on raceday I stupidly went out too fast and ended up a few minutes over of my goal time.
You do realize that one of the main advantages to running the Tuesday strength session is to LEARN DIFFERENCES IN PACE? This insures that your body will have a greater feel for pace and you will be less likely to go out too fast.
how is this possible wrote:
i still don't understand exactly how it's possible to run a successful marathon topping off at only 16 miles during training.
Look at the broad picture.
THU: 10 mile Tempo (MP)
FRI: 7 miles
SAT: 8 miles
SUN: 16 miles
MON: 6 miles
TUE: 5-7 mile tempo (HMP)
If you replace the 16 miler with a 20 miler, you would likely not recover enough for TUE's tempo at HMP.
how is this possible wrote:
i still don't understand exactly how it's possible to run a successful marathon topping off at only 16 miles during training. are 16 mile runs tempo pace?
To their point is that in europe they dont run a 20 miler, they do a 30K for their long run. That's 18 miles. So you're freaking out over 2 miles.
aquafina wrote:
To their point is that in europe they dont run a 20 miler, they do a 30K for their long run. That's 18 miles. So you're freaking out over 2 miles.
This is simply not true, no matter how often is argument is repeated. I have seen many programs topping out at 32 (= 20 miles) and 35k (~ 22 miles).
good grief. wrote:
asdas wrote:So in other words, you ignored key parts of the training plan and add nothing of value other than you thought you knew more than the Hansons and failed.
Also, he has run all of one marathon. (Sigh).
Also (again) isn't this the guy who was looking for someone to run 9:00 minute pace on lunch runs yesterday?
Maybe in his second marathon, he should re-read the book and do what he is told.
Sub240 wrote:
how is this possible wrote:i still don't understand exactly how it's possible to run a successful marathon topping off at only 16 miles during training.
Look at the broad picture.
THU: 10 mile Tempo (MP)
FRI: 7 miles
SAT: 8 miles
SUN: 16 miles
MON: 6 miles
TUE: 5-7 mile tempo (HMP)
If you replace the 16 miler with a 20 miler, you would likely not recover enough for TUE's tempo at HMP.
If you read the book again you will have the answer. An elite runner may cover 20 miles in less than two hours, but it may take 2,5 hour or more for a slower runner. The whole point in their program is balance. To be on your feet for 2,5 hours+ in a single run is not balanced if you run 65 mow or less.
Paul Tyler wrote:
The only criticism that I have ever read was by people that don't think it should work but have never tried it. People that have followed it are always improving. I improved 20 minutes after using the program and had run 10 previous marathons. I recommend googling it as everyone on this board thinks they know better.
After reading this thread, I am amazed at how accurate you were with who the critics would be.