ALAN WEBB 7TH PLACE @ RICHMOND 8k 23:10

ksk wrote:

All that tellls you is that Webb is able to beat whomever he beat.

Which is more precise than "he can run 8k in 23:10 or better" which is still a very wide range. When you know whom he beat and and didn't beat you can look up how they recently competed across other events on the track and in XC, and gage how Webb might be able to do.

JB800/1500 wrote:

its curious for me though to see that the first five guys are all listed as being in the open race, yet webb is listed as being in his age category. probably looking too much into this, but is there a chance he didnt register for open and just ran what he felt like today.

That might just be that there are prizes for the top 5 overall and those are removed from the age group prizes.

Hardloper wrote:That might just be that there are prizes for the top 5 overall and those are removed from the age group prizes.

Yup. That's exactly how it works at Richmond.

Hardloper wrote:

ksk wrote:

All that tellls you is that Webb is able to beat whomever he beat.

Which is more precise than "he can run 8k in 23:10 or better" which is still a very wide range. When you know whom he beat and and didn't beat you can look up how they recently competed across other events on the track and in XC, and gage how Webb might be able to do.

Lol what. Do you know what precise means?

If Webb runs 23:10, then you know he can run an 8k somewhere between 0-23:10. If you only know who he beat, then you know he can run an 8k between 0-infinity. Try again and tell me which range is smaller.

I think this is another VERY POSITIVE step for Webb.

When was his last race over 5K? I think it has been a while (save his solo XC "8k" run last week in Oregon). Was it the USATF Champs 10 Mile disaster last year?

http://www.mtecresults.com/race/show/1142/2012_Medtronic_TC_10_Mile-USA_10_Mile_Championships_-_Men

I hope he continues to race this fall/winter. It looks like this may be his best fall since 2010 when he won the San Jose 5K Turkey Trot beating Rupp. I too am starting to believe Webb may be back!

ksk wrote:

Lol what. Do you know what precise means?

If Webb runs 23:10, then you know he can run an 8k somewhere between 0-23:10. If you only know who he beat, then you know he can run an 8k between 0-infinity. Try again and tell me which range is smaller.

Look at it this way. When Ben True finished 6th at WXC, what gave a better indication of his fitness? His place, or his time?

Hardloper wrote:

ksk wrote:

Lol what. Do you know what precise means?

If Webb runs 23:10, then you know he can run an 8k somewhere between 0-23:10. If you only know who he beat, then you know he can run an 8k between 0-infinity. Try again and tell me which range is smaller.

Look at it this way. When Ben True finished 6th at WXC, what gave a better indication of his fitness? His place, or his time?

His time. Just admit that you are wrong and don't know what precision means.

ksk wrote:

When Webb runs 23:10, it allows you to see that he's in at least 23:10 shape minimum. If you only have who he beat, then you would not be able to conclude his maximum or minimum fitness. All that tellls you is that Webb is able to beat whomever he beat.

I once ran 25:30 on the UMass Dartmouth course. I was not in 25:30 shape. Road and XC races can be short or just simply fast. Times on the track are the only times that hold any real weight. That was part of the guy's point. If Webb ran 23:10 and lost to a 13:44 runner, there's a good chance he's not in 13:44 shape himself.

ksk wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Look at it this way. When Ben True finished 6th at WXC, what gave a better indication of his fitness? His place, or his time?

His time. Just admit that you are wrong and don't know what precision means.

You're dumb huh?

Alan Webb has progressed to being an age-group winner. I think that is just wonderful. More former elite runners should stay in the sport and compete in the age group races.

When is the last time Webb won a place based check?

... a check for first place?

D3 Elite wrote:

I once ran 25:30 on the UMass Dartmouth course. I was not in 25:30 shape. Road and XC races can be short or just simply fast. Times on the track are the only times that hold any real weight. That was part of the guy's point. If Webb ran 23:10 and lost to a 13:44 runner, there's a good chance he's not in 13:44 shape himself.

Sort of. I think it's a good sign for Webb. I'm saying if you want to estimate how he would do in other events like club XC, a track 10k, etc, it's best to look at the guys who finished around him and see how they did. Rather than base it on a VDOT table with a time from a race that we don't know how played out.

Is 3:35/3:55 Jeff See still under Saucony contract?

Webb beat him to the line by 25 seconds.

What do you guys infer from that?

I was at the race at the start line and never noticed Webb. I had no idea he was in the race until I saw the results. Webb isn't someone you don't notice normally either.

In regards to the 23:10 time... The course is significantly downhill the last half mile. Final mile splits are usually lightning fast. Soothe time here does not accurately reflect fitness.

It was pouring at the start as well. Solid rain but not hard. Temps were good too.

Alan was wearing a hat and kept his warm-ups on until the last second. He might have been harder to notice than usual. He was there, though- up and down the starting stretch warming up for about an hour before the race.

My pace for the final .96 miles was about 12 seconds faster than the average for the first four miles. I think the downhill helped a lot, but I bet it only gave me 5-8 seconds faster than normal, and I felt like I was flying down it in comparison to the guys in front and behind me.

All things considered, I am amazed that for some people there is a negative take-a-way.

Times don't mean dick in cross country/road races man.

he still lost to the guy who won by 30 seconds. it's good that he's racing and sees some hope and improvement, but he's got a long way to go before he's 'back'.

until he beats some real competition, it's all speculation.

Alan came into the race a little tired...he was aggressive the first two miles trying to push the pace......his legs were dead the last mile and he just hung in there. I really think it was a good sign. This being said he wasn't happy with the race but I feel it was a step in the positive direction...(I am the elite coordinator and he stayed at my home)

Interview:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/running/richmond-marathon/alan-webb-joy-sanders-hope-for-better-days-for-different/article_a706e268-37c1-521d-bbdd-9f08ee532aa2.html