I'm breaking my rule: Second Kip Litton Thread - Can someone please tell me what's up?

Rogers Rop, Kip and Gump

Kipling give it up

Blanc Grand Clarkston High wrote:

If the questions got too tough, which they didn't, he'd simply get up and leave. Jacket on or off didn't matter as many people do that in fast food restaurants, had nothing to do with sweating.

Totally agree with this post. Once Singer had enough info, what would it have hurt to start asking some tough questions? Who cares if he got up and left at that point? Sorry, no do overs Mr. Singer.[/quote]

At EVERY TURN, Kip lied about his cheating. Every turn. Not once did he ever give a plausible explanation for what he was asked about. Not once. Given this, and knowing you were finally going to have a face-to-face with Kip, the best scenario would be to sit back & listen to the gentle dentist. And that's what Mark did. As Kip talked, the shit kept getting deeper & deeper. This reinforced all his previous behavior. I don't know if Mark straigh-out asked 'why did you cheat?'. If he did, Kip would've denied cheating. Where do you go after that? You can't force him to come clean. You can't force him to tell how he cheated either. You're left with all the evidence that buries him 25' deep as a serial race cheat.

A lot of 'tough guys' on here that claim they would've handled the story differently. It was handled thoroughly by a competent writer who knows his way around difficult, misguided subjects. This point can't be driven home deep enough: Kip was not, at any point, going to confess to his sins. Not to Mark, not to anybody. He lives in denial. He's been hung out to fry and now must live with himself.

Fast Forward wrote:

Blanc Grand Clarkston High wrote:

If the questions got too tough, which they didn't, he'd simply get up and leave. Jacket on or off didn't matter as many people do that in fast food restaurants, had nothing to do with sweating.

Totally agree with this post. Once Singer had enough info, what would it have hurt to start asking some tough questions? Who cares if he got up and left at that point? Sorry, no do overs Mr. Singer.

At EVERY TURN, Kip lied about his cheating. Every turn. Not once did he ever give a plausible explanation for what he was asked about. Not once. Given this, and knowing you were finally going to have a face-to-face with Kip, the best scenario would be to sit back & listen to the gentle dentist. And that's what Mark did. As Kip talked, the shit kept getting deeper & deeper. This reinforced all his previous behavior. I don't know if Mark straigh-out asked 'why did you cheat?'. If he did, Kip would've denied cheating. Where do you go after that? You can't force him to come clean. You can't force him to tell how he cheated either. You're left with all the evidence that buries him 25' deep as a serial race cheat.

A lot of 'tough guys' on here that claim they would've handled the story differently. It was handled thoroughly by a competent writer who knows his way around difficult, misguided subjects. This point can't be driven home deep enough: Kip was not, at any point, going to confess to his sins. Not to Mark, not to anybody. He lives in denial. He's been hung out to fry and now must live with himself.[/quote]

This is a BS post by Fast Forward. "Tough guys"? What are you talking about? Who said they were going to do anything physical, which is what you are implying.

The point that has been brought up was once Singer had had enough and heard enough lies, simply lay out the photos of several races in question.

Not that hard BOZO.

As others have said, who cares if he gets up and leaves? How does he explain the Solstice Road Race? He could not have lied his way out of that one.

I thought it was a great article and nailed Kip as a cheater, but Singer left out some of the worst offenses and some of the most interesting stuff from the original thread. Like Kip's pre-outing and not really anonymous forum (different forum) exchanges about how he planned to do sub 3 in all 50 states and how hard Wyoming would be to check off.

I am surprised Singer got creeped out and just left the meeting without more grilling, but he was never going to get any satisfaction out of Kip. There was never going to be a Perry Mason moment of revelation and confession. There was never even going to be a point where Kip turned red and went silent as he was caught.

How does he explain the Solstice Road Race? He could not have lied his way out of that one.

He did just a page or two back in this very thread. Something about sweat on a shirt not proving anything. And he's right, that alone doesn't prove anything. He's just not going to say "can't explain that, you got me". Not going to happen.

Here's how it goes:

- We have 47 NSA videos of you leaving the course, biking to the finish, and re-entering.

Kip: My family can verify that I ran the whole thing.

- but what about the videos and the fact that you missed the timing mats and ran the second half at world record pace?

Kip (calmly): I have great integrity, lots of friends, and my wife is hot.

- but we have indisputable evidence that YOU CHEATED!

Kip (smiling): My many running friends, such as Richard Rodriguez and Brian Smith, can verify that I am much faster than they are and can easily run those times. Plus they'll tell you I'm humble and they're jealous of me.

I'm telling you, there's not going to be a "you got me" moment.

Gabbar wrote:

I thought it was a great article and nailed Kip as a cheater, but Singer left out some of the worst offenses and some of the most interesting stuff from the original thread. Like Kip's pre-outing and not really anonymous forum (different forum) exchanges about how he planned to do sub 3 in all 50 states and how hard Wyoming would be to check off.

I am surprised Singer got creeped out and just left the meeting without more grilling, but he was never going to get any satisfaction out of Kip. There was never going to be a Perry Mason moment of revelation and confession. There was never even going to be a point where Kip turned red and went silent as he was caught.

Youre right - Singer made the case for a non runner to understand why all signs point to cheating, but he left out many examples. I dont blame him though - The New Yorker editors said it was a lengthy piece, so Singer probably didn't have enough room to lay out every race. Some of the ones that are ridiculous:

1) 17:17 5k at BAA with a 4:04 chip/gun difference

2) a 2:50something at Go! St Louis

Also the email sent to SOKLR from Kip's neighbor

He maybe could have talked more with people who knew Kip from back in highschool, but Singer said a lot of them weren't willing to give their names. Many identified Litton as a perpetual liar. One posted on SOKLR blog that kip sued for something and had filed for some kind of bankruptcy. The guy clearly has some issues. Similar to a well functioning alcoholic, Maybe he can be normal most of the time and functions fine as a dentist (even though it's scary to think a licensed professional would do these things), and then he may have mental blowups every once in awhile. He certainly has not done a good job managing his emotions (and producing anything close to believable) on this website.

Better proof wrote:

That is a good point Mr. Fraud alert. However, I think that when it comes to comparing the "evidence" from this race it is even more of a slam dunk.

On the guilty side is-

not enough sweat showing on his shirt on a warm day

On the no-cheating side is-

wife and kids saw him run by at multiple points on the course

photos of him running at several spots along the course

other runners remembering him passing them

not a single eye-witness to any wrongdoing in over 10 years of racing

responded and clearly defended himself upon receiving accusation email

dozens of other 5k's, 13.1 & 26.2 mi races corroborating his finish time

How's that sweat thing workin for ya??

This is Kip's post about the sweat that I was referencing.

No, you missed the point. He was coming out of the parking lot, NOT just the sweat theory. There is no way he passed 100's of runners, no way. I know people who ran that race. He didn't pass them so how did he start jogging out of the parking lot and end up in 9th? How come Mr. Green didn't see him go by?

That's what I'm talking about, not the sweat theory, which by the way is true.

Show him the photo in the parking lot and his explanation would be what???

Checkmate! I win!

Right of Switzerland wrote:

No, you missed the point. He was coming out of the parking lot, NOT just the sweat theory. There is no way he passed 100's of runners, no way. I know people who ran that race. He didn't pass them so how did he start jogging out of the parking lot and end up in 9th? How come Mr. Green didn't see him go by?

That's what I'm talking about, not the sweat theory, which by the way is true.

Show him the photo in the parking lot and his explanation would be what???

Checkmate! I win!

You don't get the point. I'm not arguing with you. I know he cheated, you know he cheated, literally every single person who has paid attention to the story knows he cheated, but I just quoted Kip's response to that very allegation.

There's some damning stuff from that race, one of his biggest miscalculations, but I must admit I don't know about the parking lot photo. All the photos I've seen show him on the course. There is one with a parking lot in the background, but Kip is on the course surrounded by other runners:

The guy over the other shoulder in black closer to the parking lot is a kid with his number showing:

The photo I posted is at the race start. You must be talking about a different photo.

Gabbar wrote:

The photo I posted is at the race start. You must be talking about a different photo.

You can see our man in black standing at the very back of the crowd from photo 13 to 33:

Then he's finally going at 63.

As said a million times, totally absurd that he could run through everyone.

Yes - This is a good summary of what it's like dealing with this dipshit cheater and is why it's hard to have much sympathy for the guy.

The sympathy is because he is just delusional. He clearly has serious mental problems.

This is a BS post by Fast Forward. "Tough guys"? What are you talking about? Who said they were going to do anything physical, which is what you are implying.

The point that has been brought up was once Singer had had enough and heard enough lies, simply lay out the photos of several races in question.

Not that hard BOZO.

As others have said, who cares if he gets up and leaves? How does he explain the Solstice Road Race? He could not have lied his way out of that one.[/quote]

I've left my entire quote up for you to re-read Gentle Reader. I don't get what you don't understand about Kip failing to tell the truth at every turn. Every stinking turn. He lied about everything. I read plenty of it and it all read like complete nonsense.

You are wrong to imply I meant you 'tough guys' would get physical with him during an interview. I meant none of you would do as you say you'd do if you actually had the chance to talk with him. Easy enough to act 'tough' on an anonymous forum, stark reality when faced with the blond-haired liar. Fact of the matter is, you have that opportunity right now, 'tough guy' - you could try & get hold of him tomorrow, see if he'll talk, see if he'll spill the beans to you. Put up or shut up. Contact him ... it ain't that hard to find his phone # in Davison.

Regarding the Northville Solstice 10 km where he finished with a completely dry shirt on a very hot day over a demanding, hilly course - yes, Kip would've made up some story to explain his dry shirt. He would've lied about it. Get that through your heads - he ain't talkin'! But, don't let me stop you - call his office - put up or shut up, GR.

I've left my entire quote up for you to re-read Gentle Reader. I don't get what you don't understand about Kip failing to tell the truth at every turn. Every stinking turn. He lied about everything. I read plenty of it and it all read like complete nonsense.

You are wrong to imply I meant you 'tough guys' would get physical with him during an interview. I meant none of you would do as you say you'd do if you actually had the chance to talk with him. Easy enough to act 'tough' on an anonymous forum, stark reality when faced with the blond-haired liar. Fact of the matter is, you have that opportunity right now, 'tough guy' - you could try & get hold of him tomorrow, see if he'll talk, see if he'll spill the beans to you. Put up or shut up. Contact him ... it ain't that hard to find his phone # in Davison.

Regarding the Northville Solstice 10 km where he finished with a completely dry shirt on a very hot day over a demanding, hilly course - yes, Kip would've made up some story to explain his dry shirt. He would've lied about it. Get that through your heads - he ain't talkin'! But, don't let me stop you - call his office - put up or shut up, GR.[/quote]

You've got issues dude. The poster said to confront him about pictures coming out of the parking lot and somehow passing hundreds of people, all of whom never saw him go by. You're like Kip, way to side step the tough questions fastforward. You're just another tool.

Since kip is delusional, i wonder - is he delusional enough to think that when a Davison patient walks in needing a tooth pulled and there's PUS and inside that he will think the person has perfectly fine teeth?

PoY - post of year

Regarding the Northville Solstice 10 km where he finished with a completely dry shirt on a very hot day over a demanding, hilly course - yes, Kip would've made up some story to explain his dry shirt. He would've lied about it. Get that through your heads - he ain't talkin'! But, don't let me stop you - call his office - put up or shut up, GR.[/quote]

Stupid post above. Seriously Fast Forward, you DO need help.

Dude, the photo by the parking lot is the one everyone is talking about. He's "near" a parking lot by the start in the back of the pack.

If he ended up running 6:00 flat, do you understand how fast he would have had to have run to average that pace if he was running around 9 minute pace to start?

Let me help you out. In the picture, number 205 is Erin Henige of Northville wearing the pink and white shirt. She ended up 380th place, running a time of 57:43, 9:18 per mile pace.

Kip is behind her in the photo as to what could be described as "slow jogging stride". Now, forget the sweaty t-shirt theory for a moment which IS very damming in it's own right and answer this simple question. On that hilly course in hot muggy weather, how did Kip (wearing a different shirt than what is shown at the finish line and with no number exposed) pass over 380 runners to get to 9th place?

Keep in mind that Eric Green was 35:55 for 8th place then came Nathaniel Warren in 37:51, almost 2 minutes behind Eric. Nathaniel is number 488. I guarantee you that when the race spread out by the mile, he could see every runner in front of him and I guarantee you Kip was not one of them. So how did Kip run thru those hills and then catch and pass Mr. Warren and many others without him being seen? He didn't.

Whoever Fast Forward is, he seems to be lost or biased, but let's forget about him.

Now for the rest of you, answer the above question. Kip could not answer that question if it were asked of him as he knows damn well that dozens and dozens of runners would have remembered him going by, especially Mr. Warren, but oddly none of the runners anywhere near him recall being passed by him. Btw, easy course to cut, look at the map (see Dora).

As I've said a JILLION TIMES, he could NOT have passed all of those runners on that day, no way.