Sub 14 5k training?

A High Schooler wrote:

Anyone reading this sub 14 or know someone who was? What training did they do? What were their other PRs?

Bro look, people think you need some magical training to run a certain time. That's completely false. The general model of training is this: 90-100 mpw with a workout on Tuesday and on Friday. Tuesday is shorter and faster speed, Friday is longer more strength work oriented, long run Sunday, easy days the other days, double Mon-Fri.

That is the norm for high level 5k/10k runners. There are people outside that mold, but that is what is most common. Following those guidelines, get some training partners and a coach. Trust the coach and the program. Don't 2nd guess it. If you need a coach maybe talk to some friends until you find someone who is good. Good luck. Also that mileage (90-100) is when you're older. If you're in HS do less. Talk to your coach to draw up a plan.

Well, there's that one guy Edward Cheserek. He ran 13:55 on the track so far.

800m-1:50?

1500m-3:55

mile-4:03?

two mile-8:39

Cross 5K ran 14's many times

ran in the 24's for an 8K

broke 30 in a 10K

I'm pretty sure he did 60-70 with mileage right around 6:20-6:30.

There's also Lukas, even though he ran like 14:10 in high school.

Pretty much the same training. Liked lots of tempos and fartleks. Ran 3:59 in the dream mile.

you're dumb. cheserek's actual pr's are

800- 1:49

Mile- 4:02 (indoor)

2 Mile- 8:39 (indoor)

5000- 13:57 (indoor)

I was off by a second for the 800m and mile, two seconds for the 5000m on the track. Someone shoot me. In reality, you should review your handle before questioning others' intelligence.

Not looking to do it myself right now, just curious about the training of mainly collegiates who have done it or will do it.

generally speaking most of them built up to 90-100 mpw with workouts Tuesday and Friday and long run Sunday and doubles Mon-Fri. Most guys build up to that by junior year of college.

NotAustin18 wrote:

generally speaking most of them built up to 90-100 mpw with workouts Tuesday and Friday and long run Sunday and doubles Mon-Fri. Most guys build up to that by junior year of college.

How much were you running your junior year of college?

NotAustin18 wrote:

generally speaking most of them built up to 90-100 mpw with workouts Tuesday and Friday and long run Sunday and doubles Mon-Fri. Most guys build up to that by junior year of college.

Not Austin, I'm not sure you have the credibility to post on this thread based on your training history.

Plus let's realize that if I'm posting on these boards, I'm aware of general training concepts like long runs, workouts twice a week, and mileage. My questions are more specific: What are the workouts focusing on? Threshold? VO2 max? How is speed developed? Light strides year round? Heavy speed workouts late season? Sprint sessions? How is core/weightlifting incorporated? How is the training periodized in a collegiate schedule? Is cross training such as aqua jogging used for injury prone runners?

A High Schooler wrote:

NotAustin18 wrote:

generally speaking most of them built up to 90-100 mpw with workouts Tuesday and Friday and long run Sunday and doubles Mon-Fri. Most guys build up to that by junior year of college.

Not Austin, I'm not sure you have the credibility to post on this thread based on your training history.

Plus let's realize that if I'm posting on these boards, I'm aware of general training concepts like long runs, workouts twice a week, and mileage. My questions are more specific: What are the workouts focusing on? Threshold? VO2 max? How is speed developed? Light strides year round? Heavy speed workouts late season? Sprint sessions? How is core/weightlifting incorporated? How is the training periodized in a collegiate schedule? Is cross training such as aqua jogging used for injury prone runners?

Credibility? There's no such thing. If someone knows what's what, or at least thinks they do, they should be allowed to post their opinions without having their resume come into question. To illustrate my point, is someone more credible if they run 1530 as opposed to a 1650 guy? maybe, maybe not. Maybe 1530 has talent and 1650 doesn't.

To answer some of the things you brought up:

1) workouts focus on different things depending on the system you're in. Different coaches different philosophies.

2) Threshold- improving how fast you can run aerobically (improved by tempo runs and cruise intervals with short rest)

3) VO2- Not knowledgeable here, but I think its just 5k pace intervals develop it. Its the maximum amount of oxygen your body can use.

4) Speed- (sprint speed, as in top end speed) developed by short sprints at 100% with sprint form with long recovery (ex: 3-6 30m sprints with 20-30m acceleration and 20-30 deceleration and 3-4 min rest after sprints). Also developed by improving the biomechanics.

5) Strides- keep you in touch with speed so as to reduce chance of injury and make a smoother transition from base to speed work.

6) Heavy Speed work late- shouldn't be a huge bump, in taper just do the same workouts as fast as slightly faster with less volume(10x1k becomes 6x1k)

7) Core/Weightlifting Incoporation: varies depending on your program and coach's philosophy.

8) Training Periodization: again, varies greatly from program to program.

9) Cross training- injury prone runners should do less mileage and address what causes them to be injury prone (poor biomechanics, muscle imbalance, etc) in the weight room. And cautiously increase volume until they find a sweet spot there coach wants them to be at at that point in their development once they addressed what made them injury prone.

Ultimately it comes down to your coach and your program. As my HS coach once said "you can do a hundred different workouts to get the exact same benefit," and the same as true for training schedules. Find a program/coach you believe in who has a record of improving guys well (not just getting talented guys and having them stay the same), and then buy into the program and do everything that coach says. You have a question about anything ask coach.

Dude. I know what this stuff is. I'm asking how they're used in an elite collegiate training program.

A High Schooler wrote:

Dude. I know what this stuff is. I'm asking how they're used in an elite collegiate training program.

Alright, I just want you to know there's no concrete answer to that. It varies by program to program. If you want to see some college workouts and listen to athletes discuss training go on flotrack.

For example, some teams only do cruise intervals and tempos from last August to early October then add race pace or faster work. And as for volume, lots of workouts tend to be around 5 miles of fast running volume give or take. Like 8-10 x 1km with 1 min rest in 255-300 is a common college cruise interval workout.

Now if you're in HS, just train and listen to your coach then when you go to college do what that coach says. It's not complicated. There's no secret "answer" to training, there's 100s of ways to train that can all produce the same result, so listen to your coach and hope he has one of those 100s of ways to be successful in place.

Stay in the moment and don't get caught up with thinking too far ahead. If you lose sight its easy to screw things up. You're in HS so you should be 30-40 mpw(underclassmen) or 50-60 mpw (upperclassmen), and that's totally possible off singles.

Why is there such an emphasis on doing what the coach says? Especially your collegiate coach? These coach's train 10-15 runners, all of which have varying talent levels. They could care less about you unless your day and day out one of the best on the team. As soon as you fall back they don't care about you and attribute your bad performance to bad personal decision-making, etc.

The collegiate coach is there as a glorified baby sitter. The key ingredient to success is consistent injury-free training. If you can do that, the results will come. What the coach does probably does not matter. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most coach's actually contribute more to the runner's failure than to the runner's success.

petrada wrote:

Why is there such an emphasis on doing what the coach says? Especially your collegiate coach? These coach's train 10-15 runners, all of which have varying talent levels. They could care less about you unless your day and day out one of the best on the team. As soon as you fall back they don't care about you and attribute your bad performance to bad personal decision-making, etc.

The collegiate coach is there as a glorified baby sitter. The key ingredient to success is consistent injury-free training. If you can do that, the results will come. What the coach does probably does not matter. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most coach's actually contribute more to the runner's failure than to the runner's success.

I definitely agree with your first paragraph. However the second one I take issue with. Some coaches are truly bad and will ruin their runners, but some are truly great and will make runners great. At the collegiate level, most coaches can make a good runner great. It's not hard to raise mileage and build their strength. If the talent is there the transformation will happen. See: Jenkins. However to make a guy an Olympic medalist takes a different level of ability. See: Salazar. Rupp would probably be a 13:18 guy like Jenkins if it wasn't for his meticulous speed training, as well as intense strengthening workouts.

5/10

you gave yourself away a couple posts ago

A High Schooler wrote:

[quote]petrada wrote:

See: Salazar. Rupp would probably be a 13:18 guy like Jenkins if it wasn't for his meticulous speed training, as well as intense strengthening workouts.

petrada wrote:

Why is there such an emphasis on doing what the coach says? Especially your collegiate coach? These coach's train 10-15 runners, all of which have varying talent levels. They could care less about you unless your day and day out one of the best on the team. As soon as you fall back they don't care about you and attribute your bad performance to bad personal decision-making, etc.

The collegiate coach is there as a glorified baby sitter. The key ingredient to success is consistent injury-free training. If you can do that, the results will come. What the coach does probably does not matter. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most coach's actually contribute more to the runner's failure than to the runner's success.

I dunno if college is different, but in HS we had over 50 people on the team and both of our coaches cared about everyone individually as well as collectively as a whole and were able to give specific training to different groups of athletes based on style, prs, experience, etc.

And as far as finding a good coach, thats why you visit the campus and talk to the coach about training methodology and philosophy. By talking you find out whether or not they're a dumb coach or a good coach.

Where do you fit hill sprints and fast long runs? The speed on Tuesday, is that mile pace or 5K pace? What about combo sessions, a tempo run followed by intervals at mile pace? When running doubles, is it better to do the hard workout in the morning or in the evening?

NotAustin18 wrote:

generally speaking most of them built up to 90-100 mpw with workouts Tuesday and Friday and long run Sunday and doubles Mon-Fri. Most guys build up to that by junior year of college.

Shut up douchebag. At least I'm talking about training here. You're just trying to be a dick.

dvbbb wrote:

Where do you fit hill sprints and fast long runs? The speed on Tuesday, is that mile pace or 5K pace? What about combo sessions, a tempo run followed by intervals at mile pace?

When running doubles, is it better to do the hard workout in the morning or in the evening?

Well it depends on the program. Some coaches do a few hill sprints after easy runs, some do it after a hard workout, some use hill sprints as their own workout(I have a friend who does lots of 800 and 400s every week at 75 400 pace uphill).

Some programs alternate fast and slow long runs, some do progressive long runs, some do all LSD long runs. Some programs do combo sessions, some don't. It varies heavily by program to program.

Some teams do the hard workout in the morning before classes then tell the guys to get a 2nd run in after classes on their own. Again with the same theme mentioned before, it varies. There's more than one way to skin a cat. It doesn't matter whether the hard workout is in the morning or the afternoon. Just talk to the coaches and find one you believe in, make sure they have a purpose for every run. Going for an easy 5 shakeout just for the sake of running isn't a good reason for instance. Every run has a purpose, and if it doesn't the coach probably isn't very good.