Wang Junxia - Was she on peds or was she on PEDs???

* wrote:

Let me just say what I know from personal experience.

I ran several sub 3:50 1500m races and even a couple of 3:42's.

I never went out in 42 or faster. Not once.

I could have gone out in 42 and ran 3:50, yes.

But then again, I had a 3:42 PR.

When my PR was 3:52, I once hit the 400 in 59, and then ran 4:00. Mostly it was a bad race, but going out in sub 45 wasn't going to get me 3:50 that year.

So, we're saying the woman that set a record that has now lasted 20 years, could have easily ran much faster, yet never came close to that time again.

And then you have 5 women breaking the world record in the 3000 in one race.

Anyone that has common sense about running has alarm bells going off in their heads and drugs isn't even enough to make sense of it.

They had turbo jets on back in 1993. Qu's 300m split in her last 1500m world record was about two seconds slower than the 300m split from Olizarenko's 800m WR run in Moscow in 1980. For comparison, maybe the quickest opening 300m I can think of in a quality men's 1500m was 39.5 in the 2004 Zurich 1500m (ended in 3:27), and that's about 3sec quicker than what Rudisha would split at 300m during his 1:41 800s.

It is suicidally quick and achieved through a combination of chemistry and extreme training. But it was 300m.

I love this thread. The superhuman performances: from negative-splitting 5k and 3k WRs at the end of a race obliterating the 10k WR and then WR or near-WR performances in a 1500 and two 3ks in subsequent days, to "shuffling" the first 300 of a WR 1500 in 42 s... Some posters taking it for granted that the women were on both EPO and anabolic steroids and arguing whether the track was short, and other posters maintaining that all performances were clean and run on a true 400 m oval from the correct starting lines... A 40k hard effort every single day, survival of the fittest training program... 20 years later and we're fascinated by what we can't explain.

At the end of the day though, the bottom line is the same. The records are bogus and ill-gotten and the IAAF looks the fool for endorsing such nonsense.

Can we all just agree right now that only English-speaking white people and East Africans should be breaking world records?

Is there any chance wang has been reading this thread? Perhaps a friend tipped her off about it.

beamen and his dianobol

rudisha and his gw50 ,igf-1 lr3, and unspecified androgen

likely s4 /testosterone.

wang and her steroid and crazy high hct combo.

womens distance records are weak because women

are exactly that the weaker, sorry fairer sex and

throw in strength and speed from steroids and then

epo then this is the powerful combo. will be able to

keep form ,strength ,technique ,speed for duration

that consider men to be able to do easily .

she had the speed and the endurance like bekele

think bekele was just on epo .

again definitely was on at very least average dose of

testosterone ,that speed dont come from nowhere especially

for distance athlete where will be sacrificed somewhat

due to nature

of event on hormones even in best setting of clean and sunny climate ,good diet ,max rest ,so on .

his muscles always had that full look to them to me which again suggest this .

thank god for biological passport since early 2012 and

he cant rock up to europe with very high hct that will

fluctuate throughout season like pantani in 1995 as reference .

the epo test done little for east africans except make sure to stop in time head for europe .

again why needed passport .iaaf could see high hct for certain athletes all throughout 2000's and not that could do nothing ,did nothing ,ignored it as norm ,could of put in limit like cycling ,warning athlete .

appropiate dose of steroids /epo is the powerful combo.

why doesnt work as well with ethopian women ,

makes me think that never seen any numbers for how high

hct can get for women with epo ,if as easy ,their bones and system not up to task and chinese

made up difference with extra blood which someone on

circuit or east africa without medical team just not going to do .

correction

wangs records = steroids + epo + blood transfusions .

My friends, drugs does not work on chinese athletes! As coach of chinese national team, I can verify this fact to be true.

this is our sport, deal withit wrote:

Can we all just agree right now that only English-speaking white people and East Africans should be breaking world records?

Right, those darned Chinese women, they just run too fast.

Wish I could too, but I'm a lazy American.

grox wrote:

J.R. wrote:

2:15:25 / 2:03:38 x 3:26.00 = 3:44.94

(You probably mean 3:45.94.)

Why would that ratio apply to all distances?

If we calculate the extra time for the women, comparing world records, we get:

1500m: 11.9%

3000m: 10.3%

5000m: 12.4%

10000m: 12.3%

Half marathon: 12.8%

Marathon: 9.5%

The 3000m and marathon seem to be the anomalies.

It is very difficult to explain the anomalies of the 3000m and the Marathon above, especially given that insiders put Komen's 3K mark as being the loftiest of the current men's WRs.

With Paula's MAR WR, at least we can guess that men no longer have that extra bit of advantage of greater anaerobic capacity available to them at the shorter distances, thus chopping off a few percent in performance. It is also difficult with the MAR not being on a track; maybe the course was exceptional that day for Paula in regards to wind.

How hilarious would it be if this month we had a Chinese man run 13:08 for the first 5000 of a 10K, then follow that up with a 12:32 second half 5000, with the last 3000 in 7:07 and the last 1500 of that 3000 in 3:30. It's just retarded beyond compare, unless we include Wang's "WR".

Wang's 3000m time of '93 was 27 seconds faster than the previous worldwide season best of '92, and about that much faster than the typical season best of all of the 80's.

'93 was right when EPO was coming on the scene and it's typically shown an improvement of about 5-10% in power for cyclists, in addition to being able to repeat peak efforts much more often.

Going from 8:33 to 8:06 takes roughly 8-9% more power.

Likewise, going from 7:40 where the 3000m was for men before EPO came on the scene, to 7:20 several years later takes about 7-8% more power.

Quite the coincidence.

All that being said, Wang was still a phenomenal athlete despite the FACT the records are not legitimate for one or more reasons.

oh yeah333 wrote:

I must say though, that I'm absolutely shocked that there are people that would actually defend Junxia and the rest of Ma's army as actually being clean! ...That anyone could possibly defend them as clean, is beyond me. .....Really, most top athletes in most sports these days are dirty, if we're all realistic with ourselves we'll admit that.....

I'm curious how you and others of your ilk enjoy the sport? If everyone is on dope, why do you even bother? Seriously, what's your attraction?

As well, obviously your mind is made up, that much is true, but you must realize that not everyone agrees with you, right?

Please don't take this as an attack I mean it in the spirit of discussion.

domestic pro wrote:

All that being said, Wang was still a phenomenal athlete despite the FACT the records are not legitimate for one or more reasons.

Should we take anything you say seriously if you don't know the difference between fact and speculation?

ksm wrote:

Should we take anything you say seriously if you don't know the difference between fact and speculation?

That's up to you. Truth is, there are a lot of other things I don't know the difference between either. Apparently the IAAF shouldn't be taken too seriously either, as they don't know the difference between reality and whatever you want to call what happened in September of '93.

I do know a thing or two about statistics. The probability of someone breaking a WR in the 10K, 5K and 3K during the same race and not just that, but all alone for the 5K and 3K WR split, is low enough that we can safely bet the house on the FACT that either it didn't actually happen or was fueled by EPO...and not "just a little" like Lance Armstrong says he did.

Based upon the splits, she was in shape to break 29:00 that day had she been in a men's race where the top 10 men ran between 28:50 and 29:00. It is the greatest mockery of all the T&F records, even more so than the steroid-fueled 80's women's records for the 400, 800, shot, discus and flojo's supposed 0.0 m/s of wind 100m record.

domestic pro wrote:

I do know a thing or two about statistics. The probability of someone breaking a WR in the 10K, 5K and 3K during the same race and not just that, but all alone for the 5K and 3K WR split, is low enough that we can safely bet the house on the FACT that either it didn't actually happen or was fueled by EPO...and not "just a little" like Lance Armstrong says he did.

No, your use of statistics is wrong. That's not how it works.

ksm wrote:

domestic pro wrote:

All that being said, Wang was still a phenomenal athlete despite the FACT the records are not legitimate for one or more reasons.

Should we take anything you say seriously if you don't know the difference between fact and speculation?

The only speculating centers on "how". There is no credible debate about their legitimacy.

Exactly and some other athletes who were coached by Ma were busted a few yrs later. Before you idiots start making your retarded responses, what coach is going to smash the reocrd books clean with a bunch of average athletes and then think hang on I'd better start feeding this new lot steroids.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Exactly and some other athletes who were coached by Ma were busted a few yrs later. Before you idiots start making your retarded responses, what coach is going to smash the reocrd books clean with a bunch of average athletes and then think hang on I'd better start feeding this new lot steroids.

Sometimes when people are used to having winners they don't accept any less than that next. After Wang left, perhaps he started giving drugs to his athletes in order to keep the money coming in. Or you know, sometimes coaches have no idea their athletes are using drugs.

And when did he smash the record books with a bunch of average athletes? They were medalists long before and long after those world records were set.

ksm wrote:

No, your use of statistics is wrong. That's not how it works.

My statistics are like my feelings, they are 100% valid always. That's what my teacher told me, so it must be true.

Some more interesting data, dare I say stats.

On the all-time 10000m list, here are some strange top performances, with the time expected through 24 laps if run with even pacing for those with massive PRs.

001. 29:31 Wang Junxia (09/08/93)

103. 30:49 Wang Junxia (08/21/93) (29:35)

107. 30:50 Wang Junxia (10/15/94) (29:36)

154. 31:01 Wang Junxia (05/07/96) (29:46)

155. 31:02 Wang Junxia (08/02/96) (29:48)

205. 31:08 Wang Junxia (06/02/93) (29:53)

229. 31:11 Wang Junxia (05/08/96) (29:56)

013. 30:13 Zhong Huandi (09/08/93)

320. 31:21 Zhong Huandi (08/07/92) (30:06)

527. 31:35 Zhong Huandi (08/30/91) (30:19)

884. 31:50 Zhong Huandi (09/27/90) (30:34)

Looking at the above data, do you think to yourself, "Damn, those two really got that peak down perfect in 93!" Or, are you in the camp of "Damn, that really makes it obvious it was a lap short, the IAAF must be really embarrassed about the fact they can't do anything about this."

Was there a big monetary bonus of some sort at this meet in Utrecht on 6/14/09? The top 6 all got huge PRs there.

002. 29:53 Meselech Melkamu (06/14/09) Utrecht

111. 30:51 Meselech Melkamu (08/15/09) (29:37)

169. 31:04 Meselech Melkamu (05/27/10) (29:50)

175. 31:04 Meselech Melkamu (06/12/08) (29:50)

257. 31:14 Meselech Melkamu (05/31/11) (29:59)

011. 30:11 Florence Kiplagat (06/14/09) Utrecht

032. 30:24 Florence Kiplagat (06/01/12) Eugene

012. 30:11 Wude Ayalew (06/14/09) Utrecht

191. 31:06 Wude Ayalew (06/12/08) (29:51)

275. 31:16 Wude Ayalew (06/27/13) (30:01)

358. 31:24 Wude Ayalew (05/31/11) (30:09)

092. 30:47 Sylvia Kibet (06/14/09) Utrecht

602. 31:39 Sylvia Kibet (07/26/06) (30:23)

098. 30:48 Aberu Kebede (06/14/09) Utrecht

213. 31:09 Aberu Kebede (06/01/12) Eugene

114. 30:51 Hilda Kibet (06/14/09) Utrecht

141. 30:58 Hilda Kibet (05/30/08) Utrecht

433. 31:29 Hilda Kibet (08/15/08) (30:13)

Was her 8:05 a lap short too.

stupid person wrote:

Was her 8:05 a lap short too.

Had she ever run 8:05, I would have to say maybe so. But her best was 8:06, so 1/4 of a lap is more like it. Time in parenthesis at 2900m to right of date.

All-time 3000m list

01. 8:06 Wang Junxia (09/13/93)

03. 8:12 Wang Junxia (09/12/93)

55. 8:27 Wang Junxia (06/06/93) (8:10.75)

02. 8:12 Qu Yunxia (09/13/93)

04. 8:12 Qu Yunxia (09/12/93)

65. 8:28 Qu Yunxia (08/16/93) (8:11.75)

05. 8:16 Zhang Linli (09/13/93)

79. 8:29 Zhang Linli (08/16/93) (8:12.27)

Hmmm, what do you suppose is more likely, that the top 7 performances of all time came in a 24 hour span by a handful of women who never came close to those times again...or they ran 100m short of 3000, which coincidentally matches up with their best times through 2900m outside of that 24 hour period?

The next fastest time outside of that magical mystery tour around the Beijing track is a full 15 seconds slower. Maybe the distance they ran is somewhat questionable, what do you think?