Ma would lack integrity if he actually doped his girls, e.g. with some potent cocktail of male hormones.Similarly NOP/Salazar would, if these doping allegations have any merit.While you are simply arguing in terms of existence or threshold, there is a huge difference of scale. Ma had much larger success, with more athletes, in just two national meets, than can be linked today with NOP, even when you ignore Africans. You mentioned one of Salazars athletes. I guess you mean Mary Decker, the 37 year old on birth control, who was caught with a high T/E ratio some 12 years past her prime. BTW, the high T/E ratio didn't seem to help -- she was eliminated in the heats. But assuming the worst case, while Rupp was some 20 seconds faster than the European Mamede at 10000 (with a performance 30 seconds slower than the world record), Mary Decker, at her peak, was 20 seconds slower than Wang Junxia over 3000m.But all of this was not my question. Someone accused NOP/Salazar of lowering the integrity of the sport, equating them to Ma and his girls. Since the allegation is so open, I just don't know what the basis is. NOP/Salazar are doing a lot of things. Which of these things are they doing that are lowering the integrity of the sport? Is it only thyroid and TUEs? Is it the high tech altitude chambers, underwater treadmills, and cryogenic ice baths? Is it free shoes and gear? Is it cross training with weights? Is it only the fact that white athletes are once again beating the white athletes of 10 or 20 or 30 years ago? What is NOP doing that is diminishing the integrity?You also have to be a little more clear what you mean by "THEY WORK". Synthetic T4 works for a person with Hashimoto's disease to help them live something like a normal life. It has yet to be shown though that anyone actually improved running performance beyond their normal ability. Seems like some doctors lobbied WADA and/or IOC, and there wasn't enough data to convince them to ban the treatment. EPO also Canova's position about EPO is more nuanced. It is probably better understood like this: if EPO can improve someone's performance, then optimal training can achieve the same performance improvement. Blood doping doesn't lead to superhuman performance, for example like steroids would. I don't say Canova's right or wrong, but just how I interpret what he says about EPO and blood doping at the top.I feel fine about people questioning Lasse Viren's integrity. Did he do something wrong? He seems to be falsely accused of blood transfusions. But first, it's not clear he did it, and second the act was not forbidden. Either way you are right: "NO rules broken there".
this is our sport, deal withit wrote:
Salazar is accused of doping his athletes as well. In fact, one of his athletes was caught, just like Ma's athletes did several years later.
There is a reason thyroid meds and epo exist, BECAUSE THEY WORK! EPO is used to treat anemia, thyroid meds for chronic fatigue. Now you might subscribe to the Canova argument that the these drugs magically stop working at a certain level of top-africaness, or as in known in thyroid med circles, "normal."
The problem is a doctor can, on his own discretion, determines "normal." And one particular doctor, familiar with NOP, happens to be of the opinion that multiple of America's best ever are not normal.
So how do you feel about people questioning Lesse Viren's integrity. NO rules broken there. Do you think he inspired future generations? Inspired them to use PEDs perhaps.