How to justify competitive running at the amateur/hobbyjogger level?

why o why wrote:

You guys missed my point. I'm trying to justify it to myself, not because I care what others think.

Also, most of you are assuming (maybe bc of the age demographic) that it's still possible to chase PR's. Of course it's fun when you're getting faster! But when age and reaching your physical limit kicks in, what would be the point then? I think winning your age group is lame but that's me.

What's the alternative? Broaden your base of activities within an active lifestyle. Things that right now you're precluded from doing because it would be counterproductive to training.

Sounds like you worry too much about what others think of you. You should seek help for that issue.

Agreed. I was very surprised to read that this was written by a masters runner! So this person is 40+ and thinks like this? Hmmm... seems suspicious. Or very naive/immature for 40+ years old.

why o why wrote:I just think there's more ego involved in our pursuit of running excellence than just the purity of "oh, I love to run."

You started out this thread asking people why they still continue to train and race after their prime. A bunch of people told you. Now you're arguing with them and telling them that they're wrong about why they continue to run?

Of course you're right that it's difficult to separate the intrinsic pleasures of training hard from the extrinsic pleasure of placing well at races. In the decade since my "serious" competitive career ended, I've gone through a number of different phases -- barely running at all, training hard for races, training hard without racing, and even racing hard without doing much training (you can get away with that for a few years if you have a big training background in the bank!).

Having tried all the combinations and permutations, I can say now that pushing my limits with hard training on a regular basis, preferably with a few friends, is more important to me at this stage of my life than racing. I do an interval workout and a tempo run each week, and really enjoy them. And I'd enjoy my runs even more if I lived in the mountains, but that's not possible for career and family reasons right now.

Will the same turn out to be true for you? I have no idea -- different things make different people tick. But just because a potential motivation seems foreign to you, don't assume that the people telling you about it are mistaken about their own motivations.

How to justify competitive baseball at the minor league level?

How to justify competitive hockey at the junior/minor level?

How to justify competitive swimming at the local level?

What a dumb question to begin with. Why do you work if you don't own the company? Why do you vote if not elected president? Such arrogance.

With this type of thinking most Golf Courses would go out of business.

And 17 minutes for 5k is top ten locally?

Where do you live? Fayetteville, Arkansas?

Balian wrote:

With this type of thinking most Golf Courses would go out of business.

And 17 minutes for 5k is top ten locally?

Where do you live? Fayetteville, Arkansas?

I would 17:00 is fairly consistent top 10 locally (that's the Northeast corner or CT and most of RI where I'm living). But I read locally as being a run of the mill 5k on a given weekend, not a major yearly race

I believe it requires neither more nor less justification than spending an extra hour a day watching television, and most people would make no effort to justify spending an extra hour watching television. (I don't know--and don't care--exactly how much time you spend training, but I bet this is in the ballpark.) I'm too old to seriously chase PRs anymore, but I still like to get my increasingly large @ss out there and see if I can get it across the finish line of my local marathon in under 3 hours every year. I typically either just barely make it or just barely miss, and I figure the benefits I get from keeping myself fit enough to at least do that justify themselves.

why o why wrote:

You guys missed my point. I'm trying to justify it to myself, not because I care what others think.

Also, most of you are assuming (maybe bc of the age demographic) that it's still possible to chase PR's. Of course it's fun when you're getting faster! But when age and reaching your physical limit kicks in, what would be the point then? I think winning your age group is lame but that's me.

What's the alternative? Broaden your base of activities within an active lifestyle. Things that right now you're precluded from doing because it would be counterproductive to training.

Well, one "cure" for the "exercise is boring" state of mind, is to develop a chronic injury that severely limits running, it is has for me. Once regular training becomes impossible, getting out there for any kind of run (if not painful) beats alternatives such as cycling or swimming. A whole different perspective.

I'm not trying to be judgmental. I'm trying to understand my own motivations by comparing them to those who've been forced to make the transition already. I'd like someone to further deconstruct and ARTICULATE what this guy means. Because it's still not clear to me why running hard is any better than "tempoing" once you're past your peak.

For years and years I roamed wrote:

For a lot of us it does. I had just as much fun running 19 minute 5ks when I was 12 as I did running 14 minute 5ks in my mid 20s and as I will when I'm running 30 minutes with chubby housewives pushing strollers blowing by me.

What I think this guy is saying (in terms of racing) is that it is a pure joy to be in the moment and push yourself as far your body and mind can take you today. For example, I have a friend who was pretty fast in his prime (Drake Relays and Big Ten champ, low 14s for 5k). A few years past his fast days (but certainly not past his prime) he had gotten out of shape and was starting to train and race again. We raced a 5k and he was excited like a kid that he ran 16:30s. He new that that was where he was at for that time and pushing to that limit brought him pure joy. Totally present and enjoying the ride. He wasn't mourning the loss of his former fitter self (although he certainly would have liked to get back to that), but enjoying running that day. That is why the earlier poster enjoyed his 19 minute 5ks at 12 years old as much as his 14:xx 5ks at 20-something.

Along this topic, what race distances do you like to do when past peak and/or out of shape?

I'm a sucker for 5Ks, as they are my litmus test for fitness and of course are plentiful. The mile is a good test too, but too fast if I'm not doing some sort of speedy running. 5 miles and 10 miles are also great race distances for me. For some reason running 5 miles at a slower pace seems so much better than the 10K (e.g., breaking 30 min for 5 seems better in my mind than running 37:00 for 10k). For whatever reason, I hate 10Ks when I'm out of shape. I also hate 1/2 marathons when out of shape.

[quote]why o why? wrote:

What is your reason for not just adopting a fitness lifetyle where running "for time or place" is not a goal. And would you still enter races or go out with a watch on a daily basis if that were the case?[/quote)

Wow, not really sure. When I workout, regardless whether it's for time/place/PR, I usually have a goal in mind... To finish/achieve the impossible...

I've been doing it for 42 years and I love it.

End of thread.

Have you ever run a huge event that included the very best runners (many Olympic winners) from around the world?

Imagine the top two runners ask you why you train so hard and race in an event that you know that you could never even place in. You explain that your goal is to be in the top 75. They think that is a silly reason.

You ask a much slower runner in the race why he trains and races. He says he wants to be in the top 1000. You think that is a silly reason.

He asks an even slower runner why he trains and races so hard. The even slower runner says he wants to be in the top 5000. He thinks that's a silly reason.

Do you get it now? Its all relative.

People who will never be in the NBA like pickup basketball games...well into their 40s.

Neighborhood bowling legs are popular for guys who will never roll a 200.

Company softball teams ....there are thousands of them.

Why should less than world-class runners be any different?

OP has shot down every explanation for why to run at hobby level.

He's made up his mind.

I have many of the same questions. You can't justify it for health reasons since training at this level probably decreases your lifespan. There's been many a time when I've witnessed the kids down at the track or local road race to watch Dad while dressed in rags, dirty and looking like they haven't had a good meal in a week. Of course Dad is completely oblivious to it and just brags how he is the local age group record holder in Swamp Water, Texas. Who cares? I guess it all comes down to balance. Lead a balanced life. If running is preventing you from doing this, then back off. If running for medals and place is stressful, don't do it. When it comes to running, there really is no point.

Linsanity wrote:

OP has shot down every explanation for why to run at hobby level.

He's made up his mind.

He has "made up his mind" in the sense that he has a "competitive mindset." I think he believes others share this mindset (and indeed many do, especially teenagers and 20-somethings and 30-somethings.). But he doesn't seem to realize that a lot of people don't care about PRs, or getting faster, or winning races, or any of that stuff. That is not important to a lot of people. But it is VERY, VERY important to him. This surprised me, since he is over 40 years old! How can someone in their 40s or 50s or 60s still have a "competitive mindset" about running?

I enjoy it. I have always been into sports and need them to stay sane. I'm sure I am self medicating for some spectrum of ADHD, manic depression, or another clinically-described mental disorder.

Anyway, if OP needs to justify his activities to himself, I would appreciate he ceases to denigrate the victimless choices of others in the process. Just because you hate yourself doesn't mean everyone else sucks as well. Thank you in advance of your adoption of loving kindness towards people both familiar and strange.