Competitor drops support for elite athletes immediately - runblogrun

Precious Roy wrote:

This will be a disaster for elite running in the US. There will be a few big races and then nothing else but a few B team Kenyans doing tempo runs with a hard kick every weekend for a few bucks.

Call me crazy but I think that's a good thing. There's a lot of guys on the cusp of being good who are fooled into thinking they're already great because the huge amount of races allow them to stay in their own bubble.

this is a sad, sad day...heartbreaking to see all that Mike Long and Matt Turnbull worked so hard for.

Carlsbad 5000 always ridiculous fields and this is where athletes like Tirunesh, Mezzy, Mo Farah, Ochichi, Dejen etc got their starts, and remember Deena Kastor actually once held the World Record at 5K.

Haile and the World Record Half Marathon

Great runs always at Philly....levels of depth were ridiculous

Sammy VS Lel at Mardis Gras

Fastest half marathons ever run on US soil....

Running Down a Dream Program giving 75 women a last chance to qualify for the Olympic Trials at PF Changs

Rock N Roll San Jose and some guy named Duncan Kibet nobody had ever heard of....went through 10K sub28!

a chance to consistently see the Ryan Halls, Shalanes, Kara, Meb, Deenas running your local Rock N Roll Race

Mo VS Gebre

I could go on and on....as much as they were "bashed" they will be missed for sure. There won't be anyone what can fill this void. And other than NYRR, no one else has the deep pockets to be able to put together this amount of depth.

a sad day indeed.

So appearance fees and travel support are gone, but it's not clear if prize money too is gone?

seeking clarity wrote:

So appearance fees and travel support are gone, but it's not clear if prize money too is gone?

$1000 for first place at basically every race.

I don't understand how they can just not honor appearance money/travel money presumably already agreed-upon.

Does anyone know if there's usually any kind of contract signed for appearance fees? I guess I assumed the likes of say, Ryan Hall, would sign something if he was going to run a competitor race, laying out the fee, conditions, rules, regulations, etc.

Pro athletes (the ones good enough to get a fee just for showing up, anyway) are like contracted employees, right? Anyone have any insight here?

grizz wrote:

I don't understand how they can just not honor appearance money/travel money presumably already agreed-upon.

Does anyone know if there's usually any kind of contract signed for appearance fees? I guess I assumed the likes of say, Ryan Hall, would sign something if he was going to run a competitor race, laying out the fee, conditions, rules, regulations, etc.

Pro athletes (the ones good enough to get a fee just for showing up, anyway) are like contracted employees, right? Anyone have any insight here?

They will need to pay any money that someone has already earned, but they will probably be fine just canceling any future arrangements. It would be one thing if the athlete had already arrived at the event and participated, but unless there are signed contracts, I don't think that they're in any legal danger.

It's as if I've contracted you to do a remodel, but before you've done any work, I tell you that I no longer need the work done. There would need to be some clear specifics for liability in case of cancelation.

Been on both sides of this, as a former racer and race director. As a racer, I had been given hotels, gas money and comp entry fee. Now this was 30+ years ago when money was under the table and just coming on top of it. I always raced my hardest and was rewarding accordingly and also thanked the race director and sponsors personally. This was never enough to live on, so I supplemented this with managing a sporting goods store and teaching/coaching. A couple years later, I was acting on the race director side of it. I totally rearranged the budget and got sponsors so we could fly in 2 elite males and females for a half-marathon. Both males ran super and clocked a 1:04 with about 15th place going to 1:07. My top female came up to me the night before the race and stated she had been injured for over a week and wasn't going to run. That's a story in itself. The second woman ran 1:15. With me rearranging the budget, I was able to provide prize money to the top 15 males/females overall. Something that had never happened with this race. I also remember when John Hancock took over Boston and they paid appearance fees for Japanese runners to come over. I believe a couple ran just under 3 hrs for a training run and was paid about $30k. Think about how that would have assisted an American racer and this is in 80's dollars, or how that could have added to the prize money. Where does that leave us today? I don't have an answer. I think sponsors of the racers should pay for their racers to run, entry fees, travel, lodging, etc. I also think maybe USATF should change their uniform policy and let sponsorship be placed on racing kits, like NASCAR, tennis, cycling, etc. I believe the middle of the pack and end of the pack racers don't give a hoot who wins, etc. It appears most of them are there for the bling that is evident in today's events. Some events don't even have an awards ceremony to even show everyone who wins!!! What does that tell you about the sport? I do believe that using that appearance money and reverting it to prize money would at least continue to support the upfront racers.

imma guess >98% of people running the average RnR half could not name a single pro runner they are "racing against". they're just there so they can get their finishers medal and brag to their friends on social media.

Fear the bug wrote:

Competitor is making an error. The fans and other runner do like and are interested in the elite side of the race, but only mainly the elite Americans who can and will engage with them and be personable.

I seriously gave up racing in Competitor/RNR races several years ago after registering for the VA Beach RNR half for about $120 and got a really crappy cotton t-shirt. It was very clear at that point that Competitor is only in it for a profit. I will also not run NYC given the ridiculous entry fee. I am not an elite-level runner, but I am the target demographic and have the $$ to spend.

It's time to rise up and start talking with our wallets. Even perhaps staging a course sit in on race day. I do like the idea that a previous poster gave to write the mayors of the cities that host these events expressing our dismay with, in effect, eliminating competition from our sport.

runasfastasucanforaslongasucan wrote: I also remember when John Hancock took over Boston and they paid appearance fees for Japanese runners to come over. I believe a couple ran just under 3 hrs for a training run and was paid about $30k.

Some good points, thanks. I just have difficulty believing the above because it is so un-japanese. Can you show some evidence?

and unfortunately 98 percent of people running NYCM or Chicago also couldn't tell you who is running, winning, or what kind of credentials they have. indeed sport is dying. I do think that having top elites does generate some media interest, and shows some credibility--but does this really effect entries? Chicago would sell out, NYC would sell out, etc. but that's where the sport is, and keep in mind, track is not far behind....

Ironically, the banner ad at the top of my page right now is pimping a Competitor Group even.

It was during the first couple of years they came on board as the main sponsor in the late 80's. It was published in an article in one of the running magazines of the times. They compared how each of the "elite" runners ran compared to their appearance fee. I know some of the elite Americans didn't like the fact that it happened, and we all know you can have a bad day in a marathon. After my incident with the elite female and this, I had certain provisions written into the contracts when I brought in an elite runner. I'll go through some of my 80's mags and look for it.

Thanks! Would love to see that article. I just can't see a Japanese take money and jog it. They could not come home.

for sake of argument wrote:

and unfortunately 98 percent of people running NYCM or Chicago also couldn't tell you who is running, winning, or what kind of credentials they have. indeed sport is dying. I do think that having top elites does generate some media interest, and shows some credibility--but does this really effect entries? Chicago would sell out, NYC would sell out, etc. but that's where the sport is, and keep in mind, track is not far behind....

It's not really about selling entries, more than garnering attention for your event and sponsors. For example, how much coverage would their half marathon in New Orleans have received had they not had Mo Farah? Having him in your event is basically like buying adverts in the UK. And then when that newscaster came off as completely ignorant to his credentials, the story was everywhere, meaning that everyone is hearing that there is this rock 'n roll half marathon in New Orleans (and any title sponsors, as well).

Now who will write about that race in 2014?

I have been coaching a team that has won the local marathon relay for the past 3 years. They could all race the 10k, the half associated with this and place extremely high, but we chose the relay because it is the cheapest(at least it was until last year). So, the first year everyone receives a t-shirt, sling bag, and finisher's medal. The winner of the relay received a 12" acrylic trophy that costs about $40 to produce. Cost for the relay with early registration that we did was $100. Once we finished, cooled down, etc. We were told there isn't an awards ceremony, but a "gathering/party/celebration". The award was actually mailed to us. The following year early registration went up to $120 and the "trophy" turned into a 5x7 plaque that costs about $17. The team laughed when we got it. This year(which was our last), early registration $160 and the same plaque. Other costs associated with this marathon, $250 charge to place your coupon in the racer's goodie bag, $250 for a 6' table at the expo(1 day event). This past year they also added a double challenge, running the 5k the night before and choosing to run the 10k, half, marathon the next, (running the relay doesn't count). Sponsorships level start at $5k and they had 15, 2x$10k, 15x$20K, and 5x$25k. I would imagine the people that own the rights to this race are living pretty high right now. I also know it is a fulltime job to do this race, organize, keep up with changes, etc. Does the costs outweigh what we receive?

This is even more immediate than Philly. Competitor Group was promoting all summer long that Ryan Hall would be at RNR VA Beach this weekend (Labor Day). He's a no show. I'm assuming he's not here for obvious reasons.

You're not crazy.

xrytckgvjh wrote:

Call me crazy but I think that's a good thing. There's a lot of guys on the cusp of being good who are fooled into thinking they're already great because the huge amount of races allow them to stay in their own bubble.

We will have to wait and see how this turns out. I can see that someday it will separate the races like Boston and New York from the hobby events like the Rock and Roll marathon. Get races respected for what they are - races.