Great post. That's exactly what I said last night, but you documented it beautifully.
She never ran as big a differential as Alysia does routinely, and her very best races were much closer.
Does not support BW's pompous Grand Theory well at all.
Great post. That's exactly what I said last night, but you documented it beautifully.
She never ran as big a differential as Alysia does routinely, and her very best races were much closer.
Does not support BW's pompous Grand Theory well at all.
agip wrote:
so see what I mean? She is a rara avis - I think to some degree she wants to preserve her independence, even if it costs her wins and money.
Yes, I see what you mean. You have a soft spot for her. I respect that.
I do not respect divas who, when faced with reasonable criticism, essentially respond with 'Quit hatin' on me!'
1) She should grow up
2) She should learn how to race
3) She would feel a whole lot better with a gold medal in her hand. And it is nothing more than her own stubbornness that is keeping this from happening.
Look at Jenny, Brenda, Nick, Centro. Not one of these has more talent in their respective events than Montano. Yet they all come home with hardware. But rather than rethink her race strategy (is that really so painful?) all she can think is 'Quit hatin' on me'.
Sad to watch.
WHAT many poster need to realize is that there are different type of 800m runners:
1.) those that can run from the front, mid pack, or back which are very rare
2.) those that need to stay off the initial pace and pick off runners in the latter part of the race
3.) those that HAVE to get out in front and hope to build a gap and hang on
Aylissa is such a runner that have to utilize her speed early and try to hang on....don't you think her coach have looked at her training and the two decide on which strategy would work best for Alyissa?
Just because she have finished 4, 5, 4 in the last 3 Championship doesn't mean she is doing anything wrong as far as her strengths, it just mean her best HAS YET to yield her a medal!
VIPAM wrote:
don't you think her coach have looked at her training and the two decide on which strategy would work best for Alyissa?
They have looked at what she has done and decided to keep doing the same thing. They haven't looked at what she could do, and how to accomplish it.
Kratochvilova ran almost four seconds faster than Montano for 400m. He WR splits? 56.28/57.00.
Right Vipam.
Again:
Athletes being passed, with no ability to respond, by 3 runners.
Weaving the last 30m, erratically.
Taking a stumbling dive right at the finish.
Inconsolable after the race.
Does this say to you "yeah, let's just keep doing the same thing, it's great"?
Jeez!
Well, Rudisha is a front runner, I am yet to see him dying toward the end like Montano did. I don't think people are asking Montano not to front-run but they are begging her to do it wisely. I am a bit lazy but I can't count the threads on this site that pointed that Symmonds remained too far back many a times. Look at how the recent tactical adjustments that Syymonds has done yielded him. Doesn't mean he listens to letsrun but his recent success vindicates all those posts and reminds us that the wisdom of the village is often greater than the wisdom of an individual.
When I was young, I spent 2 years running consistently between 2 flat and 2:02. I would run 2:00/01/02 in the rain, cold and wind and on a perfect day. At one meet I ran 2:01 in an open 800 and then split 2:01 on relay about an hour later, but no matter how hard I tried, I could not break 2 minutes. Towards the end of the season a former world class 800m runner, who was an assistant coach with the opposing team no less, watched me run my 5th 2:x in row and said, the next time you run the half, get in front and run as hard as you possibly can to the 600 meter mark and put the last 200 in God's hand. In my next race, I did exactully that, I went out in 53x and about 50 meters from the finish line I was practically crawling, but I stopped the clock at 1:57.3. The following week I went out in 54 and ran 1:55. I eventually ran much faster than that, but when I ran that 1:57 is when I figured out what works for me.
Interesting post from T&FN on same subject:
Posted on T&FN by Master Po » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:12 am
"Picking up some data I posted earlier -- and adding to it -- about Montano's approach(es) to racing her international championship Finals, and her PB:
2007 Pan-Am (6th place)
Montano 400m @ 57.97 (leading) + 1:04.60 = 2:02.57 [+6.63 difference]
2010 WIC (Bronze medal)
M. 400m leading @ 58.16 + 1:01.44 = 1:59.60 [+3.28 difference.]
2010 Monaco DL (1st) PB 1:57.34
Pacer went through 400 @ 56.09. Montano second. M's 400m split might have been 56-high, maybe 57. If it were 57.00 (just using that as an estimate because I can do the math...), then the second 400 would be 1:00.34, perhaps a +3.34 second difference. If M's first 400 were 56.34, then 1:01, perhaps a +4.66 second difference.
2011 WC (4th)
Jepkosgei led @ 400 in either 55.50 or 55.86 (IAAF data reports both in different IAAF sources). Sinclair was very close on Jepkosgei's shoulder, & Montano also a very close 3rd on Sinclair. If Jepkosgei split 55.86, Montano's split seems to have to been 56-low. She finished in 1:57.48, so her second 400 may have been 1:01-something, so perhaps a 4+ second difference?
2012 OG (5th)
M. 400m leading @ 56.31 + 1:01.62 = 1:57.93 [5.31 difference]
2013 WC (4th)
M. 400m leading @ 56.06 + 1:01.89 = 1:57.95 [5.83 difference]
No doubt someone has exact splits for the two above for which I just did very rough estimates. However, for 3 of the 4 for which there are exact splits, the differential (5+ seconds to 6+ seconds) seems very great, at least to me. I'm no expert, but at a glance, it doesn't seem optimal.
Also, I'm guessing someone has exact splits for Savinova in her championship performances. That would be instructive, too, given her success."
Interesting to compare and contrast to Mutola:
-------
Montano
-------
2007 PAN 57.97_/2:02.57 +6.63 6th place
2013 WC. 56.06_/1:57.95 +5.83 4th place
2012 OG. 56.31_/1:01.62 +5.31 5th place
2011 WC. 56-low/1:57.48 +4.xx 4th place
2010 WIC 58.16_/1:59.60 +3.28 3rd place
** Personal best:
2010 DLM 57.00_/1:57.45 +3.34 1st place (conservative estimate)
2010 DLM 56.34_/1:57.45 +4.66 1st place (aggressive estimate)
-------
Mutola
-------
1992 OG. 55.73/1:57.49 +6.03 5th place
1991 WC. 56.60/1:57.63 +4.40 4th place
2000 OG. 56.00/1:56.15 +4.15 1st place
2008 Pre 58.00/1:59.24 +3.24 1st place
2004 OG. 57.00/1:56.51 +2.51 4th place
2003 WC. 59.00/1:59.89 +1.89 1st place
1999 WC. 57.63/1:56.72 +1.46 2nd place
1997 WC. 58.32/1:57.59 +0.95 3rd place
2005 WC. 60.72/1:59.71 -1.73 4th place
Interesting that Montano's best finish by place is with a +3.28, and her personal best is in the range +3.34 to +4.66.
Interesting that the highest positive split Mutola ever medaled with was +4.15, and that she medaled over the range of +.95 to +4.15.
lulz wrote:
Alternatively, let's look at other sprinter type women and how they ran their 800s successfully.
James Dean Lean wrote:
Kratochvilova ran almost four seconds faster than Montano for 400m. He WR splits? 56.28/57.00.
Whoops!
(particularly great example since you seem to think behind-the-iron-curtain women from the steroid era are more applicable to Montano then men are. Let's see how you explain away this example of a "sprinter type woman" running a "successful 800" with almost perfectly even splits. Can't wait!)
Clever man , childish indeed , its a "clear cut" example of no matter how fast she went out , where was she at the finish line , good or bad tactic's can be debated all day long here.
Bottom line is she missed the lean or dive and the medal.
Point here for young runners is to run the all the way through , no where the finish line is and if you knows its going to be close know how to lean and run through.
Now take that BW tissue you have wiping your lips with and take notice.
lol! Minute, hour? one or two or 20 things? Who's counting?
Let's see how this statement of fact pans out after this.
(who are we talking about here? You or bad wigings? )
I guess he's REALLY done now, after spending that "minute" (oh, maybe two) with his retort.
***** But wait Uh oh....he's back already! ******
***** AND back again! *****
ok, NOW he's really done. Oh no....
**** And yes, folks, back one more time! *****
You shoulda just switched names like you were before, at least you would have looked less foolish than saying "I never post on here", "I'm done in one minute", "I"m way past my LR allotment" and then post epics posts followed by several follow-ups. For crissakes!
stockholm results:
57 mid thru 400m for montano(57.12 for rabbit)
and...1:58ish, getting beat by Sum
Montano running all the way to lane 4 after almost tripping another athlete. Such a stupid athlete.
haha wrote:
Montano running all the way to lane 4 after almost tripping another athlete. Such a stupid athlete.
She's one of my least favorite athletes. Just an idiotic racer.
In Stockholm, why did she run from lane 3 to lane 5 with nobody around? I am confused.
Hhahahaha!!
She went from lane 2/3 to lane 5!!(Kemboi do this but when he's winning!!) What was she thinking about? Dumbest finishing ever. And still her time was respectable.
Vote for your favorite -> http://poll.pollcode.com/fwdov
She is the stupidest racer. I dislike her too.
I think she's a funny person but her tendency to drift across lanes the end of her races cost her again in Stockholm.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.