A Duck wrote:
Enter paranoid Brojo's and an army of anonymous and libelous liars on a "world famous message board."
Crock.
You think the were paranoid about Block?
A Duck wrote:
Enter paranoid Brojo's and an army of anonymous and libelous liars on a "world famous message board."
Crock.
You think the were paranoid about Block?
Trollist the First wrote:
Trollist the First wrote:Source please.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1146530.html"With the evidentiary procedure established, the Tribunal continued to consider whether Slaney had committed a doping offense. The Tribunal noted that the IAAF had established that both of Slaney's specimens had been analyzed as having T/E ratios significantly higher than 6:1. The tribunal also observed that Slaney's longitudinal study revealed a previous T/E ratio high of 3:1; meaning that her present ratio, by the most modest of calculations, was more than three times greater than she had ever previously tested. Thus the burden was shifted to Slaney to produce a valid explanation for the findings. The Tribunal noted that Slaney had produced no evidence, let alone that of a clear and convincing nature, to prove that her elevated ratio was the result of pathological or physiological factors. Since Slaney had withdrawn from the proceedings, and refused to tender her medical records to the Tribunal, the panel was forced to conclude under the burden-shifting procedure it had outlined that Slaney was guilty of a doping offense on June 17, 1996."
I'll help you out Monty. The T/E ratio test that yielded Mary Slaney's positive test is still alive and well. However, what has changed about the test is that when a test results in a >4:1 finding it is supported with additional T/E tests and a carbon-isotope ratio test to find out if the elevated testosterone is due to the use of exogenous testosterone. In 1996 there was no CIR test to determine if the excess testosterone was exogenous.
One of the problems with the T/E ratio tests is that it can be high because the epitestosterone is low so there is actually no evidence that Slaney had 'elevated testosterone'. That's one reason that that test has been relegated to a screening test. There was no evidence to support the appropriateness of that test for 37 year old women taking birth control pills, the basis for the test at that time was that the average t/e ratio in men was about 1.
Wow, I'm a relatively young guy too (22) and am surprised to read this. I've always hated Salazar and his gang of dopers in the NOP including that dweeb Rupp. This really does implicate salazar though as a definite doper and thus Rupp and the rest of the NOP, they are all a shady and pathetic bunch whom I cant wait for to be caught
An oral contraceptive is estradiol. It actually LOWERS bioavailable testosterone. Her claim is unfounded, an SI vault article says she had a t:e ratio of 10:1, so she likely took testosterone to counter-balance the testosterone-lowering effect of her oral contraceptive.
YungGuns wrote:
Wow, I'm a relatively young guy too (22) and am surprised to read this. I've always hated Salazar and his gang of dopers in the NOP including that dweeb Rupp. This really does implicate salazar though as a definite doper and thus Rupp and the rest of the NOP, they are all a shady and pathetic bunch whom I cant wait for to be caught
The second time I posted this thread, which was also deleted, I was much more clear that I'm not saying that this is proof Rupp and the NOP are dopers. I can understand if it comes off that way in the original post. I'm not even saying it adds to any argument that they're doping.
All I'm saying is it's relevant history that seems to get swept under the rug, and I wanted to know if others who have been around longer think it's swept under the rug for a valid reason, or just what is the context of it. For all I knew Rupp was the first athlete Salazar coached. I didn't know much of Slaney's history, and I definitely didn't know Salazar was a part of it, and I'm sure many others didn't either.
sanchobaile wrote:
For all I knew Rupp was the first athlete Salazar coached. I didn't know much of Slaney's history, and I definitely didn't know Salazar was a part of it, and I'm sure many others didn't either.
Why do you think that is?
YungGuns wrote:
Wow, I'm a relatively young guy too (22) and am surprised to read this. I've always hated Salazar and his gang of dopers in the NOP including that dweeb Rupp. This really does implicate salazar though as a definite doper and thus Rupp and the rest of the NOP, they are all a shady and pathetic bunch whom I cant wait for to be caught
Troll?
Slaney doping does not mean Salazar encouraged her to dope; also does not mean Rupp is doping today.
It's fine to dislike certain athletes/coaches but because Slaney doped in the 90s does not automatically mean current NOP athletes are doping as well.
Ahh I understand that, but it does serve to heighten an already large amount of doping suspicions associated with Salazar however does it not? Very similar to the recent Teniere Moser and Mo Farah cases- mediocre runners improving drastically very rapidly.
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
"14 Minutes is an inspirational account of a man who has fought with the Grim Reaper and won. Since he put on his first pair of running shoes, Alberto Salazar has been defying the odds. Through his memoir, people have the privilege to get to know this truly great man and walk away with a renewed appreciation for life.
—Lance Armstrong, cancer survivor and 7-time Tour de France champion
http://www.amazon.com/14-Minutes-Running-Legends-Death/dp/B00C818DY4
Jeff Wigand wrote:
sanchobaile wrote:For all I knew Rupp was the first athlete Salazar coached. I didn't know much of Slaney's history, and I definitely didn't know Salazar was a part of it, and I'm sure many others didn't either.
Why do you think that is?
um.. why do I think what is? I didn't know it because I wasn't alive when it happened.. and I think many others didn't know it because they weren't alive when it happened, either...
Mitch H. wrote:
"14 Minutes is an inspirational account...
—Lance Armstrong, cancer survivor and 7-time Tour de France champion
Didn't attend Marketing 095, eh?
YungGuns wrote:
This really does implicate salazar though as a definite doper and thus Rupp and the rest of the NOP, they are all a shady and pathetic bunch whom I cant wait for to be caught
I disagree 100% with your logic.
Having said that, I personally believe Mary was a doper. I don't have a lot of doubt about this. It's my personal belief.
The sport needs to have a clear discussion of what happened in the past and what happened with Mary. She easily could have doped on her own without one of her coaches knowing.
Her "defenders" like to say the T/E test is no longer used on its own, etc. I think very few of her defenders who really know what went on, say she didn't dope. Those are two different things.
We may have a better test now, but that doesn't mean Mary wasn't cheating.
I have a big problem with Nike playing her up as a hero of the sport. I have a big problem with a documentary being made and not discussing her doping conviction.
the toothpaste wrote:
An oral contraceptive is estradiol. It actually LOWERS bioavailable testosterone. Her claim is unfounded, an SI vault article says she had a t:e ratio of 10:1, so she likely took testosterone to counter-balance the testosterone-lowering effect of her oral contraceptive.
And what's it's effect on epitesterone? It's the ratio that's measured not the testosterone level, also what about the progestin only pill what effect does that have? Again the ratio could be boosted by lowering epiT, there have been documented cases of high t/e caused by low epiT. Note that LH stimulates production of testosterone in both males and females, beware of quoting the effect of other hormones on testosterone in males and assuming that they are the same in females. Also the testing organizations have been demonstrated to be sloppy in their treatment of urine samples as illustrated by the Diane Modahl and Lagat cases, T/E ratio can be adversely effect by the unsterile conditions in urine and samples should be stored at -20ºC, a doubling of the T/E ratio has been observed.
decker was legit. she was clean while the dopers scooped "her" titles.
decker evened the playing field by doing what the others were doing.
kind of like carl lewis, who was clean more or less and went the PED route to even the score with ben.
and every guy in the seoul final was hotter than hot.
plus he was set up for the bust because he did not test for the metabolite of the steroid, but the steroid itself, which means someone spiked his drink.
all is fair in love and war.
longjack wrote:
decker was legit. she was clean while the dopers scooped "her" titles.
decker evened the playing field by doing what the others were doing.
kind of like carl lewis, who was clean more or less and went the PED route to even the score with ben.
and every guy in the seoul final was hotter than hot.
plus he was set up for the bust because he did not test for the metabolite of the steroid, but the steroid itself, which means someone spiked his drink.
all is fair in love and war.
add ben was set up.
ecin wrote:
There is a lot of misinformation here but I'll address one (and I'm in my 20's, using age as an excuse for ignorance is well...ignorant). Many of the medal winners were on the today show last year during the Olympics. If you watched the news (I'm assuming you didn't) you would know this.
Wow, ecin, you're sophisticated. Get over yourself, d......
Here is a good SI article on the subject that was written in 1997:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010143/
All is definitely not fair in love...ever heard of the term "cheating"? In fact, it's a close analogy to the cheating done in sport - a basic transgression of the fundamental of fair play. And cheating, whether in love or in sport, has a similar effect: it despoils what was once beautiful.
Thank you for restoring it.
Well before malmo's confession, a decade or more ago, I'd heard about Slaney and many others from AW back in the day from someone who knew a lot about the scene there. Later this individual coached an another Olympic athlete that improved miracuously fairly late in years. Did this coach advocate drug use, or just turn away when the athlete did. Will proably never know.
Anyway, it's depressing as hell.
The ratio of 6:1 was set to account for non-doping factors, including oral contraceptives and alcohol. Her ratio was 10:1, much much higher than the already high standard. Good study how different factors affect the T:E ratio:
http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/102.full.pdf
Decker-Slaney lost her fight, so the panel clearly found her claims unsupported.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.