So it looks like I'm going to be running my first marathon in just over 8 weeks and am looking for some help with a training program. I am currently averaging around 70 miles per week but my longest run has been around 12 miles. I have a 1/2 pr of 1:17:56 and would be looking to run this marathon in around 2:45. never trained for long distances before, even my 1/2 marathon pr was off 5k training. just any general help would be awesome
oh and as a bit of a guide this is what i have been doing for around the past month:
Monday: 10 light
Tuesday: 5-7 in the AM, Speed workout in the PM
Thursday: 5 mile tempo run at around 1/2 pace, sometimes double with a light 5 after
Sunday: 10-12 depending on how I'm feeling
Ha. good luck with that 2:45.
Slow down your long runs and ramp up the miles. Over the next 4 weeks try to increase your long run up to a 20 miler. The long run is your hard workout for the week. Do 1 other workout each week. A long fartlek like 8x 5 min. with minute rest. That day should total around 12 miles. Other than that keep your mileage the same and do some strides.
I am sure that others will chime in with better advice but I would suggest doing parts of some of your long runs at Marathon pace. You will not want to do all of them at that pace (so you can make sure to get the distance up without too much trauma) but you will want to get comfortable at the pace you plan on running during your race.
@br0ski 2:45 is like more of a goal than like something i think i could definitely hit. though i would want to be under 2:50. for "marathon pace" running would i do goal marathon pace?
for "marathon pace" running would i do goal marathon pace?
At or close to (95%) the goal pace.
"What does a 2-hour easy run have to do with the marathon?" Canova asks. "Nothing." He could just as easily be talking about short repetitions at mile pace or 6-hour long runs. Following the Golden Rule of Canova, to achieve your best race-day performance, you must practice running at or around goal race pace for long periods of time. A 30-mile trail run up a mountain will get you in good general shape; it won't, however, make you a faster marathoner.
"The best way to get used to your MRP is to train at MRP. For most marathoners, I recommend one or two runs of 12 to 15 miles (usually during a longer run) at MRP during the last eight weeks before your marathon. These runs are the most specific marathon preparation that you will do. The intention is to stress your body in a similar way to the marathon, but to limit the duration so your required recovery time is held to a few days. Make sure that you have had a couple of recovery days before an MRP long run, and schedule at least two easy days afterward as well.
During these runs, use the first few miles to warm up, then finish the run with the prescribed number of miles at MRP. In addition to the physiological and psychological benefits these runs provide, they are an excellent chance to practice drinking and taking energy gels at race pace. Runs of six to eight miles at MRP are another useful element of your marathon preparation. As a final reminder not to accidentally start too fast, run a few miles at MRP about four days before your marathon."
you raced a half marathon in about 5:55 pace and you want to run 6:20 pace for a full marathon off basically the same training? It is not gonna happen bud.
I would try to run your long runs at 7 minute miles.
Turn one of those fartleks into a straight tempo. 12 miles at 6 minute pace.
During the race go out no faster than 7 minute miles. If you feel good later you can pick it up. However, it is a long way. When in doubt dont make a move.
start building up your long run up to 16-18 miles, then speed it up gradually adding the last few miles close or at MP.
The other workout of the week could be a long tempo of 7 to 10 miles at a speed between MP and HMP.
ok so a tentative weekly schedule:
Tuesday: some sort of long interval workout such as 6 x 1 mile or 4 x 2 miles
Wednesday: 8-10 light
Thursday: long tempo run, starting at 6 and increasing to 10 in a few weeks at marathon pace
Sunday: Long run, starting at 16 and increasing up to 20
oh and if on one of my non-workout days (ie no intervals, tempo, or long run) i am feeling bad was gonna split it into a two a day. was wondering what thoughts on that are? like if i dont wanna do a 10 miler on monday should i do like two 6 milers to add a little milage to make up for the loss of improvement from not doing a single?
despite the fact that you are a competitive runner and very time/goal oriented, for your first mara you def should just focus on finishing and enjoying the race. if you do those 2 things, your finish time will be really good still just bc you will be very well prepared. but if you are gunning for 2:45 and fall apart at mile 18 as a result, you may not finish or you may crawl in at 3:30. truth.
i think you will be fine, just ramp up your long runs sort of quickly. the LR is the key part of marathon training, IMO. if you want to hit, say, 80 mpw and you include 2 10mi junk runs early in the week, maybe notch those down to 8mi that way your legs have the LR in them for the end of the week.
also, working tempo miles into LRs is a really good way to increase endurance beyond just time on your feet. (for example, if you're doing a 18mi run, maybe do 10mi easy, 4mi @ 13.1mi pace, 4mi @ 10k pace)
counting back from race day...
0 weeks: 26.2
1 week: 10 please read about how to taper. this is important.
2 week: 22
3 week: 21
4 week: 20
5 week: 13 and dial your workouts back this week also
6 week: 19
7 week: 17.5
8 week: 16
what your saying makes total sense. i think it would be stupid of me to go out overly fast and blow up. feel like i will probably take it relatively easy for the first 10-13 miles and see how im feeling. i also realize that those last 6 miles can be brutal after talking to some friends that have ran marathons if i go out to fast and as i have little experience with hydrating/refueling mid-run that could lead to bad things.
also like the long run plan u set out. it seems like there are a lot of opinions on how far you actually need to go during a long run to be ready and was wondering what everyones opinions are on that?
also just again should i do my marathon pace runs at goal pace or something else? thanks
10E,4 @ HMP, 4 @ 10k pace?
Isn't that workout next to impossible? I've done 4T,10E,4T and it is murder. Maybe work the last 8 miles down by 15s per mile and have the last one at 5:30 or something but to run the last 4 miles of a long run at 10k pace seems crazy hard.
Or am I wrong?
And 12 miles @ 6:00 as a workout for a 77 min half guy? Jesus...
OP your training is solid, but you need to work on the long run. 8 weeks is not long. I'd do something like this for your long run:
7 weeks out - 18 w/13 at 6:18
6 - 22 easy
5 - 18-20 w/15 at 6:18
4 - 20 easy
3 - 14 easy
2 - 5e 5m 5e
1 - Light track. 2x 2 mile T maybe.
Keep 1 other day in the week as tempo/intervals.
You need to get at least 4 long runs (18-20 miles) under your belt.
Your overall mileage is OK, don't need to tweak it much given that just throwing in the long runs will bump it up naturally.
When you get to around 1/2 way, throw down some 10k pace for 4 to 5 miles.
I think your 2:45 is a pipe dream, especially for a first marathon, where anything and everything can go wrong.
2:55 is plausible if you don't bonk, anything under 3 would be respectable.
I've been following this thread since I have the same fitness and training stats as Trossi, the OP. Looking to as well run my 1st marathon, Lehigh (4 sundays from now) and qualify assuming the BAA actually decides which week they'll open registration.
Mileage on my end has been unfortonately lower, 50-65, but have been religous on long runs: 10 over the past few weeks building from 14-17. Started doing tempos, mile repeats, and 1000s over the last 3 weeks. Planning for Sunday to do 4mi/[email protected]/3mi, and next week (2 weeks out) 20 before tapering.
The training has been less than optimal, but perhaps adequate to get a qualifying time in assuming that the race goes well, and win a lottery spot, to which then a better training regime can happen for April. I'll be shooting for a -10 (2:55), but realistically may be looking at -5 or hitting the standard.
seriously, just like a mile race, the first half of it should be a tempo type pace. tough but sustainable. and yes, exactly... the marathon is a different beast because unlike the mile or something, you train for several weeks and then have one shot. if it blows up, you can't try again next week.
i am a mileage person (some gals max out at like 50 mpw for marathon training but i feel way more comfortable maxing out around 70), so my longest long run for my first mara was 22 and for my second was 24, and the longest oneshould be 2 weeks out from your race. but if you do further than that, you put so much stress on your body that you can't recover fully in the two weeks until your race.
ALSO, this is why you should not run entire long runs at marathon goal pace. your marathon goal pace for that long puts a ton of stress on your body, so you train hard enough to physically be able to do it on race day, but if you do it beforehand you might tire yourself out too much. (so yes, it is nerve-wracking to expect your body to accomplish something on race day without trying it out beforehand, but the mental aspect is that you must have good faith in your training!) this is why the pace for your LRs should be somewhat progressive, with short portions that are faster than GMP (goal marathon pace). but also, since your LRs each week will become the longest run you've ever done (a very cool feeling, btw!!), some of your LRs should just be LSD (long slow distance), rather than incorporate a workout.
thanks for all the input. the long run paces that ?possible? put out look much more doable for me so I will try and follow something like that i think.
also thanks torunistolive for the great help as well. need to build my confidence to be able to run at GMP right now for the distance