Go figure: Caster Semenya remains undefeated - wins in Belgium in 2:01.86 - but won't be going to Worlds.

bobby saa wrote:

Skater wrote:

For some time time I've been sensing Semenya just doesn't want the spot light. And I'd understand that. Just make enough money to help her family out, as her duty.

Excellent point.

It also looked to me that she was not attempting a 2:00 (or even 2:01.5). I have a feeling that she would have declined the invitation to WC had she run 2:01.49 by accident.

She was just going for the win (any money for the win in that meet?)

Looks like she does not want 80 different TV announcers at the WC talking about her medical issue, but would like to get back running some meets that will win her some money (she will surely run races after the WC)...

I just read in a race report that the bunny was for Semenya, and she has asked for a SLOW start. So the bunny ran 62/400m.

Staggering.

tgirl wrote:

Creepy Cracker wrote:

Maybe, but only to a point. To call her/him a "her" only and refuse to look at the science which clearly shows the Xxy chromosome is also an error of of mis-gendering. So, to land on any one side definitively is also a foolish thing to do. But I bet you FEEL good about yourself and smugly afford yourself moral superiority as a result. Very foolish!

First off, none of us actually knows for certain what her chromosome pattern is, although I will grant you that there is a good chance that she has a y chromosome in there somewhere.

Secondly, she is legally, socially, and hormonally female, and should be addressed as such, unless she indicates otherwise.

I do, however, agree with you that gender is more complicated than simply male or female.

he is NOT socially female. he looks and acts like a typical teenage boy. you can refrain from the pedantic rants in the future.

tgirl wrote:

Secondly, she is legally, socially, and hormonally female, and should be addressed as such, unless she indicates otherwise.

That's not quite accurate. According to leaked information from a couple years ago, her testosterone level was three times higher than the highest level of pro-elite women. She also has cryptorchidism (undescended testicles). She had them all her life, which gave her several years of unfair physical development. Supposedly, she's taking some sort of testosterone depressant to get her to normal female levels, but that doesn't make up for the years of testosterone-aided physical development she has gained over her competition.

It's not her fault, granted, but until those testes are surgically removed, she is going to continue to have an unfair advantage.

Creepy Cracker wrote:

Tgirl wrote:

...and BTW all of the troglodytes who insist on misgendering her only make themselves appear foolish.

Maybe, but only to a point. To call her/him a "her" only and refuse to look at the science which clearly shows the Xxy chromosome is also an error of of mis-gendering. So, to land on any one side definitively is also a foolish thing to do. But I bet you FEEL good about yourself and smugly afford yourself moral superiority as a result. Very foolish!

There has never been a publication on Caster Semenya's genetic make-up.

fisky wrote:

tgirl wrote:

Secondly, she is legally, socially, and hormonally female, and should be addressed as such, unless she indicates otherwise.

That's not quite accurate. According to leaked information from a couple years ago, her testosterone level was three times higher than the highest level of pro-elite women. She also has cryptorchidism (undescended testicles). She had them all her life, which gave her several years of unfair physical development. Supposedly, she's taking some sort of testosterone depressant to get her to normal female levels, but that doesn't make up for the years of testosterone-aided physical development she has gained over her competition.

It's not her fault, granted, but until those testes are surgically removed, she is going to continue to have an unfair advantage.

Sources?

tgirl wrote:

First off, none of us actually knows for certain what her chromosome pattern is, although I will grant you that there is a good chance that she has a y chromosome in there somewhere.

Secondly, she is legally, socially, and hormonally female, and should be addressed as such

First you say we don't know, then you say he's a female.

tgirl wrote:

First off, none of us actually knows for certain what her chromosome pattern is

They tested her after Berlin and her management decided to not release the results. Guess why.

Semenya's reacts after her race in Belgium. Says she's not that disappointed not to go.

Video is here:

http://www.atni.be/2013/07/29/caster-semenya-is-niet-zo-teleurgesteld-dat-ze-niet-naar-het-wk-mag-interview/

What are you harping on about? Sure she has run a few races and managed to win, but has she beaten any of the elite athletes this season? Are you saying that athletes should be admitted into a prestigious global event even if their current form doesn't merit their inclusion?

You are talking utter nonsense!! I suppose we should take K.Bekele, E. Kipchoge, B Kipruto etc..simply based on their past achievements rather than current form?

Do me a favour!!!

J.R. wrote:

"As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube.

"Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames."

Huh?

In reference to the messages removed and change in the title, a good search engine can be enlightening.

Gender isn't defined by anatomy, so I hope you FEEL like an ass. To call her intersex is accurate, but he and she is defined by how the individual defines their gender, not how you decide it should be. Damn straight Tgirl is morally superior.

Hypocrisy thy name is wrote: Gender isn't defined by anatomy, so I hope you FEEL like an ass.

It's nice of you to try to reason with that dude, but I don't have high hopes that he'll suddenly acquire a more nuanced understanding of the world.

For what it's worth, I don't think Semenya should have been permitted to compete, but there's no doubt that her identity as female should be respected.

Quit the gender talk, it's been enough.

Rather, explain why she shows up to races around the world, to then do everything to win slowly.

I can believe she had surgery to set het back a bit, but cannot believe she was fighting for the WC limit there. Othhers in the race, packed in, WERE fighting for it, and Caster just blew past all of them. Too little, too late, and not disappointed at all. The only one in the race not disappointed, from what I can tell. When really, winning a race is nothing new. Especially when it's SLOW.

Skater wrote:

For some time time I've been sensing Semenya just doesn't want the spot light. And I'd understand that. Just make enough money to help her family out, as her duty.

this is the best answer yet. in watching that race it's obvious that CS could run 2 flat or faster. but last time he/she was any good, people started ruining his/her life.

i don't think CS should be allowed to compete internationally if there is any prize at stake because it isnt fair to the actual women competing, however, she could be a darn good rabbit.

reed wrote:

[quote]Skater wrote:

she could be a darn good rabbit.

She does have a resemblance to Steve Scherer, the best in the business.